h2b vs itr?
03-05-2012, 11:06 AM
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h2b vs itr?
I got a complete itr swap that Im swapping into my em1 and im planning on keeping it stock for a while until I make a decision on whether to get the itr bored to a 2.0 and go n/a or to get a h22 long block and put the lsd itr tranny on it.
Ive read comparisons on b series engines vs h series engines but never a comparison on something like this.
I know they both have their pros and cons but I just wanted to see if I could get some insight on this.
Ive read comparisons on b series engines vs h series engines but never a comparison on something like this.
I know they both have their pros and cons but I just wanted to see if I could get some insight on this.
03-05-2012, 11:26 AM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
I know you're new but Jeez. Biggest engine with the most horsepower you can afford.
I hate these stupid juvenile "what if" questions. It's like kids playing the "Who is stronger? Superman or Thor?" game.
I hate these stupid juvenile "what if" questions. It's like kids playing the "Who is stronger? Superman or Thor?" game.
03-05-2012, 11:40 AM
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03-05-2012, 12:36 PM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
Originally Posted by grumblemarc;4697524 [/B
Biggest engine with the most horsepower you can afford.
Last edited by em1_niokka; 03-05-2012 at 04:03 PM.
03-05-2012, 12:47 PM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
An H22 or an H23 mated to the same ITR transmission will smoke the ITR engine any day of the week. This is a stupid question.
2.2/2.3L > 1.8L
End of story.
Running mid-12's is not unusual for a stock h2b setup. With cams, slicks, and tuning a lot of guys are running 11's.
Can't do that with a 1.8L
2.2/2.3L > 1.8L
End of story.
Running mid-12's is not unusual for a stock h2b setup. With cams, slicks, and tuning a lot of guys are running 11's.
Can't do that with a 1.8L
03-05-2012, 09:32 PM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
An H22 or an H23 mated to the same ITR transmission will smoke the ITR engine any day of the week. This is a stupid question.
2.2/2.3L > 1.8L
End of story.
Running mid-12's is not unusual for a stock h2b setup. With cams, slicks, and tuning a lot of guys are running 11's.
Can't do that with a 1.8L
2.2/2.3L > 1.8L
End of story.
Running mid-12's is not unusual for a stock h2b setup. With cams, slicks, and tuning a lot of guys are running 11's.
Can't do that with a 1.8L
03-06-2012, 01:58 AM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
The 4.78 will have shorter gears, but your mileage may suffer a bit, and you'll be running at higher rpms than you usually would.
I'm using a 4.4 ITR transmission, with an LS 5th, so I'll be at ~3500rpm@80mpg instead of 3900rpm if I went with the 4.78
The ITR already has short gears, I would actually like to get traction, haha. I guess that's part of my reasoning for going with 4.4 instead of 4.78. The 4.4s are generally a little cheaper too.
03-06-2012, 03:51 AM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
Just wanted to touch on this.
You could reasonably sell a good condition ITR motor for ~$2,000 easily.
QSD kit $750
H22 or H23A Longblock from most engine importers ~900-1100 shipped
You've still got ~$150-350 left over for whatever else you need, belts, etc. The QSD kit even utilizes the B-series mounts.
You'd break even for the most part, and have more power than $2,000+ could ever make on the ITR block.
You could reasonably sell a good condition ITR motor for ~$2,000 easily.
QSD kit $750
H22 or H23A Longblock from most engine importers ~900-1100 shipped
You've still got ~$150-350 left over for whatever else you need, belts, etc. The QSD kit even utilizes the B-series mounts.
You'd break even for the most part, and have more power than $2,000+ could ever make on the ITR block.
03-06-2012, 09:53 AM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
Define best.
The 4.78 will have shorter gears, but your mileage may suffer a bit, and you'll be running at higher rpms than you usually would.
I'm using a 4.4 ITR transmission, with an LS 5th, so I'll be at ~3500rpm@80mpg instead of 3900rpm if I went with the 4.78
The ITR already has short gears, I would actually like to get traction, haha. I guess that's part of my reasoning for going with 4.4 instead of 4.78. The 4.4s are generally a little cheaper too.
The 4.78 will have shorter gears, but your mileage may suffer a bit, and you'll be running at higher rpms than you usually would.
I'm using a 4.4 ITR transmission, with an LS 5th, so I'll be at ~3500rpm@80mpg instead of 3900rpm if I went with the 4.78
The ITR already has short gears, I would actually like to get traction, haha. I guess that's part of my reasoning for going with 4.4 instead of 4.78. The 4.4s are generally a little cheaper too.
Im prety sure I got a 4.4 itr tranny and I wouldnt mind having an ls fifth gear I hear alot of people get it but that its a pain in the *** to do it and that theres a large step between 4th and 5th.
but I guess its worth it if you get to cruise on the freeway instead of being at 4000rpms@80mph lol
03-06-2012, 10:01 AM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
Just wanted to touch on this.
You could reasonably sell a good condition ITR motor for ~$2,000 easily.
QSD kit $750
H22 or H23A Longblock from most engine importers ~900-1100 shipped
You've still got ~$150-350 left over for whatever else you need, belts, etc. The QSD kit even utilizes the B-series mounts.
You'd break even for the most part, and have more power than $2,000+ could ever make on the ITR block.
You could reasonably sell a good condition ITR motor for ~$2,000 easily.
QSD kit $750
H22 or H23A Longblock from most engine importers ~900-1100 shipped
You've still got ~$150-350 left over for whatever else you need, belts, etc. The QSD kit even utilizes the B-series mounts.
You'd break even for the most part, and have more power than $2,000+ could ever make on the ITR block.
I just bought some b series innovative motor mounts cus I was planning on using them for my itr but since plans changed and Im going h2b now I was thinking about getting the innovative h-series motor mounts for the swap.Is it worth it or the qsd kit covers it?
Last edited by em1_niokka; 03-06-2012 at 10:19 AM.
03-06-2012, 10:31 AM
#20
Re: h2b vs itr?
yea im planning on keeping my itr stock for the time being until I can get a jdm h22 long block and after I finished getting all the other parts for the h22(I read you need alot of mods, brackets, radiator, alternator, etc) swap in the h22 long block and sell the itr long block
I just bought some b series innovative motor mounts cus I was planning on using them for my itr but since plans changed and Im going h2b now I was thinking about getting the innovative h-series motor mounts for the swap.Is it worth it or the qsd kit covers it?
I just bought some b series innovative motor mounts cus I was planning on using them for my itr but since plans changed and Im going h2b now I was thinking about getting the innovative h-series motor mounts for the swap.Is it worth it or the qsd kit covers it?
lol
Research what the qsd kit comes with, that'll answer your quesiton lol.
03-06-2012, 10:55 AM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
The change in cruising at 80mph is not that significant, with a 4.4FD it's 3900 RPM with the ITR 5th, and 3500rpm with the LS 5th.
@em1 niokka
The QSD kit utilizes B-series mounts.
With the QSD kit, the H22/h23/f20b is ultimately a b-series swap. In egs you might need to massage the frame-rail a bit, but apart from the wiring and installing the adapter place/spacer, it's no different than a b-series swap.
@em1 niokka
The QSD kit utilizes B-series mounts.
With the QSD kit, the H22/h23/f20b is ultimately a b-series swap. In egs you might need to massage the frame-rail a bit, but apart from the wiring and installing the adapter place/spacer, it's no different than a b-series swap.
03-06-2012, 07:29 PM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
The change in cruising at 80mph is not that significant, with a 4.4FD it's 3900 RPM with the ITR 5th, and 3500rpm with the LS 5th.
@em1 niokka
The QSD kit utilizes B-series mounts.
With the QSD kit, the H22/h23/f20b is ultimately a b-series swap. In egs you might need to massage the frame-rail a bit, but apart from the wiring and installing the adapter place/spacer, it's no different than a b-series swap.
@em1 niokka
The QSD kit utilizes B-series mounts.
With the QSD kit, the H22/h23/f20b is ultimately a b-series swap. In egs you might need to massage the frame-rail a bit, but apart from the wiring and installing the adapter place/spacer, it's no different than a b-series swap.
Now driving on the highway a 4.4 with a ls 5th would be nice, but if racing the rev drop from the 4-5 change could be significant enough to bring you out or at the bottom of your power band.
03-06-2012, 07:38 PM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
My apologies, the numbers I cited were:
3900RPM w/ LS 5th and 4.7 FD
3500RPM with LS 5th and 4.4 FD
Quoted from a guru I know:
3900RPM w/ LS 5th and 4.7 FD
3500RPM with LS 5th and 4.4 FD
Quoted from a guru I know:
So taking Libertariat's actual set-up into account, let's do some number crunching.
Since tires have an effect on the cruising rpm in each gear (it's also a sort of final multiplier - shorter tires = like a shorter final drive; taller tires - like a taller FD.) I'm going to use 205/50/16 tires for my math.
Stock ITR transmissions that came with a 4.400FD came with a .848 5th gear. At 80mph let's see what the cruising rpm would be:
80mph = 4200rpm
He is planning on swapping in the taller 94-01 Integra LS 5th gear, which is a .742 (taller) which would be:
80mph = 3500rpm
That's a difference of 700rpm. Might not sound like a lot, but that's a pretty awesome change for such a simple one gear swap.
If he ran that 5th gear in a 4.78FD-equipped tranny with that LS 5th gear:
80mph = 3900rpm
...still lower than a stock ITR tranny.
One last thing - the Accord Euro R/Prelude VTEC tranny has a 4.26FD with a .812 5th gear...cruising rpm in 5th gear at 80mph?
3900rpm
So really you could run the 4.78FD ITR trans with that LS 5th gear and still not be any "worse" off on the highway than the stock tranny that was supposed to be mated to that H23A.
Since tires have an effect on the cruising rpm in each gear (it's also a sort of final multiplier - shorter tires = like a shorter final drive; taller tires - like a taller FD.) I'm going to use 205/50/16 tires for my math.
Stock ITR transmissions that came with a 4.400FD came with a .848 5th gear. At 80mph let's see what the cruising rpm would be:
80mph = 4200rpm
He is planning on swapping in the taller 94-01 Integra LS 5th gear, which is a .742 (taller) which would be:
80mph = 3500rpm
That's a difference of 700rpm. Might not sound like a lot, but that's a pretty awesome change for such a simple one gear swap.
If he ran that 5th gear in a 4.78FD-equipped tranny with that LS 5th gear:
80mph = 3900rpm
...still lower than a stock ITR tranny.
One last thing - the Accord Euro R/Prelude VTEC tranny has a 4.26FD with a .812 5th gear...cruising rpm in 5th gear at 80mph?
3900rpm
So really you could run the 4.78FD ITR trans with that LS 5th gear and still not be any "worse" off on the highway than the stock tranny that was supposed to be mated to that H23A.
03-07-2012, 07:55 AM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
Every b16 or itr 4.4 fd tranny I've ever owned has been at about 4400-4500 rpms @ 80 mph not 3900. And the 4.7 fd itr trans has a Gsr 5th gear. Most h2b setups would Run out of 4th gear in the 1/4 and be slowed down from the rev drop of the Gsr 5th gear, that is why the 4.4 b16 or itr trans is more ideal for most setups, still being able to cross the line in fourth.
Now driving on the highway a 4.4 with a ls 5th would be nice, but if racing the rev drop from the 4-5 change could be significant enough to bring you out or at the bottom of your power band.
Now driving on the highway a 4.4 with a ls 5th would be nice, but if racing the rev drop from the 4-5 change could be significant enough to bring you out or at the bottom of your power band.
@ the OP, why hang onto the B18C? Selling it could fund basically your entire H2B build since you already have one hell of a tranny to go along with it
03-07-2012, 09:17 AM
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Re: h2b vs itr?
I have the 4.7 ITR trans and I don't have to shift into 5th in the 1/4, on a 23" slick I was crossing the traps @ around 8000 RPM @ 110/111 MPH
@ the OP, why hang onto the B18C? Selling it could fund basically your entire H2B build since you already have one hell of a tranny to go along with it
@ the OP, why hang onto the B18C? Selling it could fund basically your entire H2B build since you already have one hell of a tranny to go along with it
But I totally agree on selling the itr to fund the h2b. The only problem
Is actually getting rid of it, not many people are willing to fork out 2k for a b series long block,my buddy is trying to do the same thing right now.