b18b or b16a?
09-22-2005, 06:30 PM
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b18b or b16a?
i am having the hardest time choosing between the two! please help!! i know the specs are vastly different, but my driving style is somewhere in the middle. i just need some pros and cons, i trust you guys, after reading so many of your posts. i know you can help. thanks for any input.
09-22-2005, 07:15 PM
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Re: b18b or b16a? (aak)
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878010
B16
These can be found in the JDM SIR and SIRII (among other JDM cars, which I don't claim to know all of which it came in) as well as the USDM 99-00 SI (EM1) and the 99-00 Canadian SIR.
Pros
160 hp stock
High RPM power
Fairly inexpensive
Good transmission
DOHC VTEC
Cons
113ft/lbs torque (very little more than a D16z6 stock)
Without knowing what you're looking for you can end up with a high mileage JDM model
Under 4k or so it feels just like a D16
B18B
This is the motor in the non Type-R and non GSR Integra.
Pros
Good torque for a 1.8L (127 ft/lbs)
Inexpensive (even cheaper than a B16)
142 hp (more than any stock D series)
Boost heads love them
Cons
No VTEC
Longest B series transmission
B16
These can be found in the JDM SIR and SIRII (among other JDM cars, which I don't claim to know all of which it came in) as well as the USDM 99-00 SI (EM1) and the 99-00 Canadian SIR.
Pros
160 hp stock
High RPM power
Fairly inexpensive
Good transmission
DOHC VTEC
Cons
113ft/lbs torque (very little more than a D16z6 stock)
Without knowing what you're looking for you can end up with a high mileage JDM model
Under 4k or so it feels just like a D16
B18B
This is the motor in the non Type-R and non GSR Integra.
Pros
Good torque for a 1.8L (127 ft/lbs)
Inexpensive (even cheaper than a B16)
142 hp (more than any stock D series)
Boost heads love them
Cons
No VTEC
Longest B series transmission
09-22-2005, 08:05 PM
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Re: b18b or b16a? (aak)
it also depends on how you wish to mod the motor if thats your plan. there is more aftermarket support for the b16a than the non v-tec b-series motors. also, the extra revs and horsepower the b16a provides really helps the top end and MPH in the quarter mile. putting a b16a with a shorter geared tranny will help acceleration too.
09-22-2005, 08:17 PM
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Re: b18b or b16a? (aak)
Well, what is it going to?
(Assuming a civic, but for all I know it could be one of the ZC tegs...)
I would recommend the B18B, and purely based on the fact I enjoy the torque. And I love turbo's....
Don't get me wrong, I have a turbo LS VTEC so I have a both pros....
My sol came stock with a B16.....I played with it and put a B18B in it (lucked out and got it for free, I have too much time), then Turbo B16, then turbo LS VTEC....Plus I have had the stock B16 tranny with aftermarket LSD, stock teg tranny open diff, now a jdm ITR wLSD tranny.
From my experiences, You really want longer gears, the short gears are really fun for fooling around. But, on road trips you want to shoot yourself, going 80 at 4100rpm....
I think you should go B18B turbo with a teg tranny and an aftermarket diff (which you can buy from the money you saved over the motor)....gobs of torque, more than enough top end, plus less humm on the highway...unless your girlfriend really likes you...
(Assuming a civic, but for all I know it could be one of the ZC tegs...)
I would recommend the B18B, and purely based on the fact I enjoy the torque. And I love turbo's....
Don't get me wrong, I have a turbo LS VTEC so I have a both pros....
My sol came stock with a B16.....I played with it and put a B18B in it (lucked out and got it for free, I have too much time), then Turbo B16, then turbo LS VTEC....Plus I have had the stock B16 tranny with aftermarket LSD, stock teg tranny open diff, now a jdm ITR wLSD tranny.
From my experiences, You really want longer gears, the short gears are really fun for fooling around. But, on road trips you want to shoot yourself, going 80 at 4100rpm....
I think you should go B18B turbo with a teg tranny and an aftermarket diff (which you can buy from the money you saved over the motor)....gobs of torque, more than enough top end, plus less humm on the highway...unless your girlfriend really likes you...
09-23-2005, 09:57 AM
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thanks. i've been leaning toward the b18b, but i just wanted some personal opinions. motors going in a 97 ek. i plan on keeping it pretty stock aside from the usual bolt ons. so it sounds like it's gonna be the b18. thanks again for the input!
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09-23-2005, 01:00 PM
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Re: (92Jspec)
I have a similar decision to make... build a b18b bottom end for an ls/vtec, stock sleeves, forged pistons/rods or just turbo a stock b16?
09-27-2005, 11:24 PM
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Re: (orangerex04)
hey sorry guys im a noob as the sign says
<====<< But is definitely want the b18b after reading this post. I was in between them, but I hate the lack of tq on the d16z6 in my 93 del sol. I want to go naturally aspirated and I have been reading that the b18b is non-vtec. What’s the big difference in the non-vtec? And is this ls/vtec conversion expensive and what are some pros.
im also looking for some good prices on low mileage b18b, throw me some sites + opinions on bolt-ons
<====<< But is definitely want the b18b after reading this post. I was in between them, but I hate the lack of tq on the d16z6 in my 93 del sol. I want to go naturally aspirated and I have been reading that the b18b is non-vtec. What’s the big difference in the non-vtec? And is this ls/vtec conversion expensive and what are some pros.
im also looking for some good prices on low mileage b18b, throw me some sites + opinions on bolt-ons
09-28-2005, 06:19 AM
#11
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Re: (juice23)
I'll be the lone B16A guy here I guess.
I have driven many set-ups, and installed many set-ups.
Let me tell you about two brothers - friends of mine.
Tyler had a B20Z with Skunk2 intake manifold, LS tranny, etc. - for all intensive purposes it is as good or even better than the average LS swap - perfect for you guys and your "torque owns" argument.
Brandon had a JDM B16A second-gen swap.
Both cars had i/h/e and both were identical (even teal!) Eg hatches, DX models.
Around town at lower rpm the B20Z pulled nicely and was a very fun car, but as soon as they lined up and raced the B16A would beat the B20 hatch by a car and a half or more. The races were never close.
This isn't some made-up story, or some one-time street race where someone says "I raced a B16A hatch with more mods and beat him in my LS" where there are far too many variables. These guys are real people who raced numerous times and the end result was always the same - B16A > B20/LS
I recently swapped in an LS swap for a friend of mine named Eric into his 1993 CX HB. Again it pulls great around town, but it's not as quick as a B16A hatch - not really close at all really. I raced him in my wife's B16A2 hatch and won every time. Hell I and a co-worker of mine have also beaten his LS swap with my 11:1CR otherwise stock D16A6 (SOHC non-VTEC) and his 11.5:1CR D16Z6 (SOHC VTEC) swaps in same or heavier chassies. Eric if you're reading this you know I'm not talking ****.
After driving countless LS and B16A swaps I have no doubt that if you want the faster swap then you get the B16A - no contest. I work in a shop that only does H&A cars, so I've driven just about every near-stock swap you can imagine, in most every Civic chassis.
If you want a car to mill around town with for low rpm pulling power without having to drop gears and rev to the rev limit to pass, then get the LS swap, but don't expect to beat B16A swaps with it.
BTW:
The LS/VTEC points are not bad, but it's a lot easier to find a cheap-*** B18A/B shortblock and freshen it up and simply swap it in place of the B16a block than it is to take an LS swap and add a VTEC head and better transmission, ECU, etc.
Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 11:04 AM 9/28/2005
I have driven many set-ups, and installed many set-ups.
Let me tell you about two brothers - friends of mine.
Tyler had a B20Z with Skunk2 intake manifold, LS tranny, etc. - for all intensive purposes it is as good or even better than the average LS swap - perfect for you guys and your "torque owns" argument.
Brandon had a JDM B16A second-gen swap.
Both cars had i/h/e and both were identical (even teal!) Eg hatches, DX models.
Around town at lower rpm the B20Z pulled nicely and was a very fun car, but as soon as they lined up and raced the B16A would beat the B20 hatch by a car and a half or more. The races were never close.
This isn't some made-up story, or some one-time street race where someone says "I raced a B16A hatch with more mods and beat him in my LS" where there are far too many variables. These guys are real people who raced numerous times and the end result was always the same - B16A > B20/LS
I recently swapped in an LS swap for a friend of mine named Eric into his 1993 CX HB. Again it pulls great around town, but it's not as quick as a B16A hatch - not really close at all really. I raced him in my wife's B16A2 hatch and won every time. Hell I and a co-worker of mine have also beaten his LS swap with my 11:1CR otherwise stock D16A6 (SOHC non-VTEC) and his 11.5:1CR D16Z6 (SOHC VTEC) swaps in same or heavier chassies. Eric if you're reading this you know I'm not talking ****.
After driving countless LS and B16A swaps I have no doubt that if you want the faster swap then you get the B16A - no contest. I work in a shop that only does H&A cars, so I've driven just about every near-stock swap you can imagine, in most every Civic chassis.
If you want a car to mill around town with for low rpm pulling power without having to drop gears and rev to the rev limit to pass, then get the LS swap, but don't expect to beat B16A swaps with it.
BTW:
The LS/VTEC points are not bad, but it's a lot easier to find a cheap-*** B18A/B shortblock and freshen it up and simply swap it in place of the B16a block than it is to take an LS swap and add a VTEC head and better transmission, ECU, etc.
Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 11:04 AM 9/28/2005
09-29-2005, 09:41 PM
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Re: b18b or b16a? (aak)
i'll tell you from experience. i have 2 buddies. one owns a b18b powered eg with i/h/e and the other guy owns a crx b16a with i/h/e. the eg rocks the crx by car and half maybe 2. both good drivers. go with the b18b. it has no vtec but 1.6L is just not worth it.
09-30-2005, 05:06 AM
#13
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Re: b18b or b16a? (everlasting1832)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by everlasting1832 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'll tell you from experience. i have 2 buddies. one owns a b18b powered eg with i/h/e and the other guy owns a crx b16a with i/h/e. the eg rocks the crx by car and half maybe 2. both good drivers. go with the b18b. it has no vtec but 1.6L is just not worth it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Have the two cars been weighed?
Also first-gen B16A swaps are notoriously slow, and if your friend has a late 1989-1991 CR-X then it's a heavy bitch anyways due to the seatbelts being in the doors and having crazy heavy door supports and shitloads of tar too. Also what tranny does the B16A have? Unless it's a JDM S1/J1 or YS1 then the gears suck.
First-gen B16A swaps can be sold with ****-gearing trannies.
Unless the B16A has a JDM J1/S1 or a GS-R-spec or JDM YS1 tranny then the gearing sucks, and I'd expect the B16A to be slow. Too often people get the Y1 with it's 4.26Fd and taller gearing, or worse someone bolts up a shitbox USDM S1 trans to it or USDM LS-spec YS1 and the owner never knows it.
With OBD1/2 B16A swaps the trannies are much easier. There wasn't a stock OBD1/2 B16A sold with a **** tranny, and unlike Integra and pre-OBD B16A trannies there are no tranny codes such as "S1" that could either be a nice geared or shitty geared tranny.
For OBD1/2 B16A you have the choice of Y21 or S4C - you're guranteed the good gearing.
If we're comparing a B18B swap to a second-gen B16A or a B16A2/3 with a good ECU and everything is running right then no i/h/e LS swap with it's LS tranny will beat it - I've never seen one bit of evidence in person to support equal i/h/e LS swaps beating B16A swaps.
Have the two cars been weighed?
Also first-gen B16A swaps are notoriously slow, and if your friend has a late 1989-1991 CR-X then it's a heavy bitch anyways due to the seatbelts being in the doors and having crazy heavy door supports and shitloads of tar too. Also what tranny does the B16A have? Unless it's a JDM S1/J1 or YS1 then the gears suck.
First-gen B16A swaps can be sold with ****-gearing trannies.
Unless the B16A has a JDM J1/S1 or a GS-R-spec or JDM YS1 tranny then the gearing sucks, and I'd expect the B16A to be slow. Too often people get the Y1 with it's 4.26Fd and taller gearing, or worse someone bolts up a shitbox USDM S1 trans to it or USDM LS-spec YS1 and the owner never knows it.
With OBD1/2 B16A swaps the trannies are much easier. There wasn't a stock OBD1/2 B16A sold with a **** tranny, and unlike Integra and pre-OBD B16A trannies there are no tranny codes such as "S1" that could either be a nice geared or shitty geared tranny.
For OBD1/2 B16A you have the choice of Y21 or S4C - you're guranteed the good gearing.
If we're comparing a B18B swap to a second-gen B16A or a B16A2/3 with a good ECU and everything is running right then no i/h/e LS swap with it's LS tranny will beat it - I've never seen one bit of evidence in person to support equal i/h/e LS swaps beating B16A swaps.
09-30-2005, 05:12 PM
#14
If you want to keep it forever, go with the B18B, if you plan on upgrading, go with the B16A. I just sold a C1 shorblock for $200, that's about average price, so if you do get a B16, you could upgrade bottom end later on down the road and have a decent competitor in the b-series ball game.
B16 has a great head, short geared transmission, but a shitty bottom end.
B18B has a shitty transmission, a shitty powerband, a shitty head, and good torque.
Actually, I just changed my mind, I'd go with a B16 if I were you.
B16 has a great head, short geared transmission, but a shitty bottom end.
B18B has a shitty transmission, a shitty powerband, a shitty head, and good torque.
Actually, I just changed my mind, I'd go with a B16 if I were you.
10-01-2005, 07:08 AM
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Re: (RotiEatter)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RotiEatter »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B18B-T
B18B Turbo'd is a way better combination than the B16A.
I wouldn't waste my time and money on a B16A, I'd rather boost a SOHC or B18B.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I second that, b16 is a torqueless wonder. B18b and you can turbo it down the road on the stock engine and get 250whp easy. Just make sure you mate a b16 tranny with it for the shorter gearing.
B18B Turbo'd is a way better combination than the B16A.
I wouldn't waste my time and money on a B16A, I'd rather boost a SOHC or B18B.
</TD></TR></TABLE>I second that, b16 is a torqueless wonder. B18b and you can turbo it down the road on the stock engine and get 250whp easy. Just make sure you mate a b16 tranny with it for the shorter gearing.
10-03-2005, 03:58 AM
#17
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Re: (slomofo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slomofo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
B16 has a great head, short geared transmission, but a shitty bottom end.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually the B16A is probably the strongest of all the B series bottom ends (except for the B16B) due to it's ideal rod/stroke ratio. This basically means there is less stress on the cylinder walls and pistons/rods because the angles on the rods/pistons are less stressful than on the 1.8L blocks. (I'm dumbing it down)
If properly tuned/boosted I believe the B16A would make more whp and last LONGER than a B18B given equal boost/tuning/turbo set-up.
It won't make the same torque, but in a boosted application all that will do is cause you to boil the tires upon take-off on the street, and at the strip you'll be launching at a muchn higher rpm on slicks, so torque isn't all that important if you have much better peak whp.
<FONT SIZE="7">B16A>B18B</FONT>
BTW:
Why does everyone always compare a boosted B18B to an N/A or stock-type B16A swap? Do you guys really think the two cost the same? you guys act like the B18B comes with a turbo bolted onto it the way you immediately compare boosted B18Bs with the B16A.
Also let's not keep comparing bottom-barrel pre-OBD B18A or high mileage B18B swaps to the most expensive B16A swaps you can think of. None of this "well my friend got an LS block for $150.00" or any of that mess. This guy will need to buy a 100% complete swap.
Being that this car in question is OBD2 he'll probably end up having to pay a premium for an OBD2 LS swap anyways, so the prices of the low mileage LS swaps being around $2,000.00-$2,200.00 as opposed to the $2,800.00 or so for a good old B16A2 swap.
You think $600.00-$800.00 is going to get him a good turbo kit?
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 3:30 PM 10/3/2005
B16 has a great head, short geared transmission, but a shitty bottom end.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually the B16A is probably the strongest of all the B series bottom ends (except for the B16B) due to it's ideal rod/stroke ratio. This basically means there is less stress on the cylinder walls and pistons/rods because the angles on the rods/pistons are less stressful than on the 1.8L blocks. (I'm dumbing it down)
If properly tuned/boosted I believe the B16A would make more whp and last LONGER than a B18B given equal boost/tuning/turbo set-up.
It won't make the same torque, but in a boosted application all that will do is cause you to boil the tires upon take-off on the street, and at the strip you'll be launching at a muchn higher rpm on slicks, so torque isn't all that important if you have much better peak whp.
<FONT SIZE="7">B16A>B18B</FONT>
BTW:
Why does everyone always compare a boosted B18B to an N/A or stock-type B16A swap? Do you guys really think the two cost the same? you guys act like the B18B comes with a turbo bolted onto it the way you immediately compare boosted B18Bs with the B16A.
Also let's not keep comparing bottom-barrel pre-OBD B18A or high mileage B18B swaps to the most expensive B16A swaps you can think of. None of this "well my friend got an LS block for $150.00" or any of that mess. This guy will need to buy a 100% complete swap.
Being that this car in question is OBD2 he'll probably end up having to pay a premium for an OBD2 LS swap anyways, so the prices of the low mileage LS swaps being around $2,000.00-$2,200.00 as opposed to the $2,800.00 or so for a good old B16A2 swap.
You think $600.00-$800.00 is going to get him a good turbo kit?
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 3:30 PM 10/3/2005
10-03-2005, 08:14 PM
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Re: b18b or b16a? (BigJ5)
I was recently thinking about doing an ls/vtec swap on my ek hatch and was wondering if you think $2,800 is a decent price to have this installed in my car? The cost includes labor, ls or si tranny, chipped si ecu, complete b16 head, motor mounts, and everything else to be fully drivable when done.
Any input would be nice, thanks
Any input would be nice, thanks
10-04-2005, 03:59 AM
#20
Former Moderator
Re: b18b or b16a? (AZNracerx1989)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AZNracerx1989 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Which engine would be better with jackson supercharger?</TD></TR></TABLE>
No doubt the B16A IMO.
The JRSC is an excellent upgrade if you're not looking for tons of boost, and again if comparing identical set-ups/boost the B16A WILL MAKE MORE POWER AND BE QUICKER/FASTER no matter what anyone else says about this torque BS.
No doubt the B16A IMO.
The JRSC is an excellent upgrade if you're not looking for tons of boost, and again if comparing identical set-ups/boost the B16A WILL MAKE MORE POWER AND BE QUICKER/FASTER no matter what anyone else says about this torque BS.
10-04-2005, 04:23 AM
#22
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Re: (RotiEatter)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RotiEatter »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't waste my time supercharging any Honda motor. It's a waste.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know I love a good discussion.
Owen Bach was running 12.8 on a 100% bone stock internals B16A2 in a 2000 Civic Si (read - heavy) with a Jackson Supercharger with the CR-V crank pulley and upgraded blower pulley.
Before the pulley upgrades he drove the **** out of that car for 2 years with zero issues, and after the upgrade he was at the strip collecting trophies at the local drags for fastest import (those in other areas with 10 second Civics, this was in way south GA, not ATL) so I think supercharging could work if done right.
Imagine that set-up in a stripped hatch! If it went 12.8 in an EM1 chassis...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know I love a good discussion.
Owen Bach was running 12.8 on a 100% bone stock internals B16A2 in a 2000 Civic Si (read - heavy) with a Jackson Supercharger with the CR-V crank pulley and upgraded blower pulley.
Before the pulley upgrades he drove the **** out of that car for 2 years with zero issues, and after the upgrade he was at the strip collecting trophies at the local drags for fastest import (those in other areas with 10 second Civics, this was in way south GA, not ATL) so I think supercharging could work if done right.
Imagine that set-up in a stripped hatch! If it went 12.8 in an EM1 chassis...
10-04-2005, 09:43 AM
#24
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Re: (BlazedD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlazedD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">b18c1 or sirG>b16a>b18b</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ferrari V12 > B18C1
What's the relevance of stating the obvious in a topic only concerning the B16A and B18B?
Ferrari V12 > B18C1
What's the relevance of stating the obvious in a topic only concerning the B16A and B18B?
11-03-2006, 09:19 PM
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Re: (B18C5-EH2)
Ok I have a 92 Integra LS and the motor was bad when I bought it so I ordered a new one thur a local shop and its a B18B, I would like any info on what I can do to it short of VETEC conversion to get the most out of it. I'd appreciate it if things were a bit watered down cuz I'm a bit of a noob as far as performance goes. Thanx.