B16a2 Swap Question
06-24-2003, 06:36 PM
#1
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B16a2 Swap Question
Do I need the hasport mounting kit or is it a direct bolt on to a '92 to '95 civic? Do I use a GSR shift linkage for the transmission? '94 up Del Sol B16a components are interchangable?
06-24-2003, 06:54 PM
#2
Senior Member
Re: B16a2 Swap Question (civic_power)
Nope, you can use your D series mounts. You will just need a 99-00 Si rear tranny bracket.
it's basically direct bolt in.
You will also need to use 94+ B series axles, as well as B series shift linkage.
it's basically direct bolt in.
You will also need to use 94+ B series axles, as well as B series shift linkage.
06-24-2003, 07:34 PM
#4
Senior Member
Re: B16a2 Swap Question (civic_power)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_power »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Items like the water pump, can I use from a Del Sol or Si?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep. 94-97 del Sol VTEC or the 99-00 Si. Same with Timing belt as well.
Yep. 94-97 del Sol VTEC or the 99-00 Si. Same with Timing belt as well.
06-24-2003, 08:42 PM
#5
Former Moderator
Re: B16a2 Swap Question (civic_power)
I have this swap in one of my hatches...I don't have time right this second, but I can tell you EXACTLY what you'll need and how the swap is done first thing tomorrow morning, okay?
I gotta hit the bed now though!
Trust me it'll be worth the wait if you really want to know how it's done blow by blow...
I gotta hit the bed now though!
Trust me it'll be worth the wait if you really want to know how it's done blow by blow...
06-25-2003, 07:13 AM
#6
Former Moderator
Re: B16a2 Swap Question (B18C5-EH2)
Okay I have some more time to give a better answer to your question now.
First of all mounts:
For the timing cover side mount you will need to get the cast-iron bracket from any 1994-2001 Integra GS-R and also the aluminum mount as well. You can use the mount from a Del Sol VTEC as well, but not the 99-00 mount because it is totally different.
For the rear mount you will need to use a 1994-2001 Integra rear bracket. The actual rubber mount that bolts to the rear subframe can be the stock civic one. Check the 99-00 mount first and see if it will work too though before you go out and buy an Integra one. I used an Integra rear bracket on my fiancee's B16A2 swap in 1999, but the stock 99-00 one might work too.
The topside tranny mount can be the Civic VX one - it is the same thing.
The front mounting brackets need to be from an Integra 1004-2001, but if you want to keep A/C then get the A/C bracket for a Del Sol VTEC model. the actaul mounts that bolt to the underside of the framerails need to be the stock Civic ones.
I would also insert the energy Suspension mount inserts while you've got the mounts out.
For shift linkage the 99-00 Si linkage will bolt right up.
Axles can be either the 99-00 si axles or any 1994-2001 Integra axles. I'd try to get non-ABS ones as they are usually cheaper.
As I stated before I have a B16A2 swap in a 1992 Si hatchback as well as a B18C5 swap in a 1992 CX hatchback.
There are some differences in these swaps even though they are both "OBD2" swaps, and it all has to do with the factory engine harness that each engine comes with.
On the Integra the engine harness is exactly the same as any 1992-1995 Civic, but it just has a few extra sensor plugs, etc.
On the 99-00 Civic Si (B16A2) the engine harness is totally different from the Civic and Integra ones and CANNOT be used in the 1992-1995 Civic.
So what's the solution?
There are two ways that you can make the B16A2 swap very easy. One way makes it nearly plug and play, while the other requires a bit more work, but you could save some money in the process and it's still not hard at all.
Method number one:
Find any 1996-2001 Integra engine harness. Ideally it should be a GS-R or Type R unit, but if all you can find is an LS then it's only a few extra wires. I'd imagine they should not be too hard to come by and will cost probably no more than $100.00-$150.00 used and they are only $350.00 or so brand new from Honda if you need a reference point.
If you can locate the 96-01 engine harness then simply plug it into the engine and drop the engine in. Even though the harness is technically "OBD2" trust me it is a direct plug in for the 1992-1995 Civic on the underhood strut tower harnesses.
What ever you decide you should ditch the 99-00 Si ECU. It is OBD2 and horrible. What you'll need to run is a re-chipped P28 (1992-1995 SOHC VTEC ECU) from Kenji Plennert in Florida. His e-mail adress is kenji211@tampabay.rr.com - tell him Tom sent you from H-T. I run his ECU on my Type R swap and it is way better than any stock OBD2 crap ECU. even if you wanted to keep the 99-00 ECU you'd need to buy a jumper harness and wire up all of that extra OBD2 bullshit, which is not necessary.
If you run that re-chipped P28 and the 96-01 Integra harness then the swap is almost 100% plug and play. Hell in your Civic VX it will be 100% plug and play if you find a GS-R or Type R harness. Not one single wire will need to be ran this way. My 1992 CX (prewired for VTEC like your VX is, because all 1992 Civics were wired for VTEC regardless of trim) didn't require one single wire at all with my 1998 B18C5 swap because I used a re-chipped P28 and the Integra engine harness.
Actually I just recalled that you will have to only do one thing wiringwise. Simply extend the two wires foir the intake air temperature sensor. for some reason the B16A2 is the only B motor that I know od that locates its IAT sensor into the actual intake tubing rather than the intake manifold itself. for this reason you must simply extend the existing two wires for that sensor on the engine harness to stretch from the intake manifold (where it is on the Integra) to whatever intake arm you decide to run.
Method Number Two:
If you are just way too broke to buy a used 96-01 Integra engine harness, you can use your stock Civic harness. It will require more work, but if you don't mind that then you could save some money. I'll go ahead and tell you that if I were you I'd really try to find that Integra engine harness, but here goes anyways.
To use your stock Civic harness you will need to do some minor wiring changes and a few other things. It's not hard and if you just breathe deeply and read this I think you'll find it to be prety easy actually. I used this method back in 1999 when I put a B16A2 into my fiancee's car, and I did not know that the 96-01 Integra harness would make it near plug and play.
Change #1:
First of all there will be a minor difference in the plug style on the distributor. Some people will say :"get an OBD1 distributor" but they must think that OBD1 distributors are cheap or easy to find used. The B16A2 distributor will have one big plug on it, while your stock Civic and it's engine harness has two plugs. All you have to do is unpin the two lowest fat wires from the B16A2 distributor and repin them into the extra plug on the VX engine harness.
Here's a picture of the B16A2 distributor. The arrows are pointing to the wires you need to unpin. This is a picture of an unaltered B16A2 distributor:
So here's that extra plug on your VX harness with the two wires already ran into it. Notice the wires are the exact same color, making it "idiot proof" so to speak. i'm glad they decided to keep the same colors:
Okay that tales care of that.
Change #2:
The plug on the B16A2 alternator won't plug into your VX harness. There are two ways around this. You could either find an OBD1 B Series distributor, or you can swap the voltage regulator from your VX alternator into the B16A2 housing. The B16A2 will have a square plug while the VX harness will have a round plug. Simply pull both alternators apart and swap the voltage regulator. You'll know which part it is because the plug is part of it. A few 8mm and 10mm bolts are all that stand in your way.
Change #3:
Injectors.
The B16A2 uses OBD2 style injector plugs that will not plug into your VX harness. You can either buy new OBD1 injecotrs for a 1994-1995 Del Sol VTEC or just use your stock Civic VX injectors. I still run the 1992 Civic Si injectors in my fiancee's B16A2 and it dynoed the same or better as any other B16A2 with i/h/e in my area with 143whp with 102 ft-lbs. of torque.
Change #4:
Your VX comes with a 5-wire o2 sensor, which means that the harness will also support a 5-wire o2 sensor. The B16A2 will have 2 4 wire o2sensors, but if you use the re-chipped P28 it will only read for one.
You will need to covert your 5-wire harness to support the B16A2's primary o2 sensor with only 4 wires.
This is courtesy of poison:
- WHT/RED wire goes to D14 which is O2 Sensor Input
- ORG/BLK wire goes to A6, which is Heater Control
- GRN/WHT wire goes to D22 which is Sensor Ground
- YEL/BLK wire goes to A25 which is Sensor voltage
So after that you simply extend the IAT sensor wires just as you would even with the Integra 96-01 harness.
What do you think of that?
First of all mounts:
For the timing cover side mount you will need to get the cast-iron bracket from any 1994-2001 Integra GS-R and also the aluminum mount as well. You can use the mount from a Del Sol VTEC as well, but not the 99-00 mount because it is totally different.
For the rear mount you will need to use a 1994-2001 Integra rear bracket. The actual rubber mount that bolts to the rear subframe can be the stock civic one. Check the 99-00 mount first and see if it will work too though before you go out and buy an Integra one. I used an Integra rear bracket on my fiancee's B16A2 swap in 1999, but the stock 99-00 one might work too.
The topside tranny mount can be the Civic VX one - it is the same thing.
The front mounting brackets need to be from an Integra 1004-2001, but if you want to keep A/C then get the A/C bracket for a Del Sol VTEC model. the actaul mounts that bolt to the underside of the framerails need to be the stock Civic ones.
I would also insert the energy Suspension mount inserts while you've got the mounts out.
For shift linkage the 99-00 Si linkage will bolt right up.
Axles can be either the 99-00 si axles or any 1994-2001 Integra axles. I'd try to get non-ABS ones as they are usually cheaper.
As I stated before I have a B16A2 swap in a 1992 Si hatchback as well as a B18C5 swap in a 1992 CX hatchback.
There are some differences in these swaps even though they are both "OBD2" swaps, and it all has to do with the factory engine harness that each engine comes with.
On the Integra the engine harness is exactly the same as any 1992-1995 Civic, but it just has a few extra sensor plugs, etc.
On the 99-00 Civic Si (B16A2) the engine harness is totally different from the Civic and Integra ones and CANNOT be used in the 1992-1995 Civic.
So what's the solution?
There are two ways that you can make the B16A2 swap very easy. One way makes it nearly plug and play, while the other requires a bit more work, but you could save some money in the process and it's still not hard at all.
Method number one:
Find any 1996-2001 Integra engine harness. Ideally it should be a GS-R or Type R unit, but if all you can find is an LS then it's only a few extra wires. I'd imagine they should not be too hard to come by and will cost probably no more than $100.00-$150.00 used and they are only $350.00 or so brand new from Honda if you need a reference point.
If you can locate the 96-01 engine harness then simply plug it into the engine and drop the engine in. Even though the harness is technically "OBD2" trust me it is a direct plug in for the 1992-1995 Civic on the underhood strut tower harnesses.
What ever you decide you should ditch the 99-00 Si ECU. It is OBD2 and horrible. What you'll need to run is a re-chipped P28 (1992-1995 SOHC VTEC ECU) from Kenji Plennert in Florida. His e-mail adress is kenji211@tampabay.rr.com - tell him Tom sent you from H-T. I run his ECU on my Type R swap and it is way better than any stock OBD2 crap ECU. even if you wanted to keep the 99-00 ECU you'd need to buy a jumper harness and wire up all of that extra OBD2 bullshit, which is not necessary.
If you run that re-chipped P28 and the 96-01 Integra harness then the swap is almost 100% plug and play. Hell in your Civic VX it will be 100% plug and play if you find a GS-R or Type R harness. Not one single wire will need to be ran this way. My 1992 CX (prewired for VTEC like your VX is, because all 1992 Civics were wired for VTEC regardless of trim) didn't require one single wire at all with my 1998 B18C5 swap because I used a re-chipped P28 and the Integra engine harness.
Actually I just recalled that you will have to only do one thing wiringwise. Simply extend the two wires foir the intake air temperature sensor. for some reason the B16A2 is the only B motor that I know od that locates its IAT sensor into the actual intake tubing rather than the intake manifold itself. for this reason you must simply extend the existing two wires for that sensor on the engine harness to stretch from the intake manifold (where it is on the Integra) to whatever intake arm you decide to run.
Method Number Two:
If you are just way too broke to buy a used 96-01 Integra engine harness, you can use your stock Civic harness. It will require more work, but if you don't mind that then you could save some money. I'll go ahead and tell you that if I were you I'd really try to find that Integra engine harness, but here goes anyways.
To use your stock Civic harness you will need to do some minor wiring changes and a few other things. It's not hard and if you just breathe deeply and read this I think you'll find it to be prety easy actually. I used this method back in 1999 when I put a B16A2 into my fiancee's car, and I did not know that the 96-01 Integra harness would make it near plug and play.
Change #1:
First of all there will be a minor difference in the plug style on the distributor. Some people will say :"get an OBD1 distributor" but they must think that OBD1 distributors are cheap or easy to find used. The B16A2 distributor will have one big plug on it, while your stock Civic and it's engine harness has two plugs. All you have to do is unpin the two lowest fat wires from the B16A2 distributor and repin them into the extra plug on the VX engine harness.
Here's a picture of the B16A2 distributor. The arrows are pointing to the wires you need to unpin. This is a picture of an unaltered B16A2 distributor:
So here's that extra plug on your VX harness with the two wires already ran into it. Notice the wires are the exact same color, making it "idiot proof" so to speak. i'm glad they decided to keep the same colors:
Okay that tales care of that.
Change #2:
The plug on the B16A2 alternator won't plug into your VX harness. There are two ways around this. You could either find an OBD1 B Series distributor, or you can swap the voltage regulator from your VX alternator into the B16A2 housing. The B16A2 will have a square plug while the VX harness will have a round plug. Simply pull both alternators apart and swap the voltage regulator. You'll know which part it is because the plug is part of it. A few 8mm and 10mm bolts are all that stand in your way.
Change #3:
Injectors.
The B16A2 uses OBD2 style injector plugs that will not plug into your VX harness. You can either buy new OBD1 injecotrs for a 1994-1995 Del Sol VTEC or just use your stock Civic VX injectors. I still run the 1992 Civic Si injectors in my fiancee's B16A2 and it dynoed the same or better as any other B16A2 with i/h/e in my area with 143whp with 102 ft-lbs. of torque.
Change #4:
Your VX comes with a 5-wire o2 sensor, which means that the harness will also support a 5-wire o2 sensor. The B16A2 will have 2 4 wire o2sensors, but if you use the re-chipped P28 it will only read for one.
You will need to covert your 5-wire harness to support the B16A2's primary o2 sensor with only 4 wires.
This is courtesy of poison:
- WHT/RED wire goes to D14 which is O2 Sensor Input
- ORG/BLK wire goes to A6, which is Heater Control
- GRN/WHT wire goes to D22 which is Sensor Ground
- YEL/BLK wire goes to A25 which is Sensor voltage
So after that you simply extend the IAT sensor wires just as you would even with the Integra 96-01 harness.
What do you think of that?
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06-25-2003, 09:24 AM
#8
Former Moderator
Re: B16a2 Swap Question (civic_power)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_power »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I plan to get the engine w/ the jdm wire harness. So do I still have to worry about the wiring? </TD></TR></TABLE>
There is no such thing as a JDM B16A2.
JDM engines do not come with an engine harness usually, and even if they do the harness is not going to work in your car without some major stretching because it is intended for a right-hand drive car. This means the plugs are all on the wrong sides for your car.
You need to tell me EXACTLY what engine you're buying. Hell give me the phone number of the shop you're buying from and let me call them and see exactly what they are trying to sell you. I already have my swaps so I'm not trying to buy one out from under you.
There are roughly 3 different versions of the B16A from Japan, and I want to know which one they are trying to sell you.
There is the pre-OBD one that is wrong for your car.
There's a true OBD1 from the 1992-1995 EG hatch over there which will be perfect for your car if you use the stock Civic's engine harness from your car.
Then there's the "OBD2" version which will go in exactly like a USDM OBD2 B16A2 swap like I just detailed above.
Shoot me the name of the shop and your contact and let me call them. I know the little differences between the engines so I can help them help you out bro.
There is no such thing as a JDM B16A2.
JDM engines do not come with an engine harness usually, and even if they do the harness is not going to work in your car without some major stretching because it is intended for a right-hand drive car. This means the plugs are all on the wrong sides for your car.
You need to tell me EXACTLY what engine you're buying. Hell give me the phone number of the shop you're buying from and let me call them and see exactly what they are trying to sell you. I already have my swaps so I'm not trying to buy one out from under you.
There are roughly 3 different versions of the B16A from Japan, and I want to know which one they are trying to sell you.
There is the pre-OBD one that is wrong for your car.
There's a true OBD1 from the 1992-1995 EG hatch over there which will be perfect for your car if you use the stock Civic's engine harness from your car.
Then there's the "OBD2" version which will go in exactly like a USDM OBD2 B16A2 swap like I just detailed above.
Shoot me the name of the shop and your contact and let me call them. I know the little differences between the engines so I can help them help you out bro.
06-25-2003, 09:48 AM
#9
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Re: B16a2 Swap Question (B18C5-EH2)
Sorry, I'm just new to this. I'm trying to do research on how this swap goes first before I decide to buy. I plan to get a B16A 92-95 (SiR-II) motor. Is it OBD1?
06-25-2003, 10:30 AM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Re: B16a2 Swap Question (civic_power)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_power »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry, I'm just new to this. I'm trying to do research on how this swap goes first before I decide to buy. I plan to get a B16A 92-95 (SiR-II) motor. Is it OBD1?</TD></TR></TABLE>
what year is your car? this should help clear up some technical issues.
If your car is a 92-95 model, its OBD1 equipped, so life would be a lot easier if you decided to buy a 2nd gen B16 or 92-95 SiR2 engine, since the electronics would be 100% compatible with your 92-95 vehicle...minus the JDM engine harness if it ultimiately would be a JDM 2nd gen B16A you'd purchase.
what year is your car? this should help clear up some technical issues.
If your car is a 92-95 model, its OBD1 equipped, so life would be a lot easier if you decided to buy a 2nd gen B16 or 92-95 SiR2 engine, since the electronics would be 100% compatible with your 92-95 vehicle...minus the JDM engine harness if it ultimiately would be a JDM 2nd gen B16A you'd purchase.
06-25-2003, 10:36 AM
#11
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Re: B16a2 Swap Question (Katman)
Its between '92-'95. So wiring should be too much of problem with the second generation B16A? I read on Hasport they have a wire subharness for DX/LX civic.
06-25-2003, 10:45 AM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: B16a2 Swap Question (civic_power)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_power »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its between '92-'95. So wiring should be too much of problem with the second generation B16A? I read on Hasport they have a wire subharness for DX/LX civic. </TD></TR></TABLE>
you don't need any aftermarket wiring....you can reuse your exising harness if you buy a 2nd gen/OBD1 B16A engine. If you own a 92-95 SOHC VTEC civic, your in luck because you won't have to wire jack **** up since all vtec wiring there, embedded in the harness. If you own a non-vtec model, you have an option, either reuse your non-vtec harness and manually add the required vtec wiring or go out and by a used 92-95 Si/EX engine harness and be done.
you don't need any aftermarket wiring....you can reuse your exising harness if you buy a 2nd gen/OBD1 B16A engine. If you own a 92-95 SOHC VTEC civic, your in luck because you won't have to wire jack **** up since all vtec wiring there, embedded in the harness. If you own a non-vtec model, you have an option, either reuse your non-vtec harness and manually add the required vtec wiring or go out and by a used 92-95 Si/EX engine harness and be done.
06-26-2003, 10:38 PM
#15
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even if you have the 92-95 civic ex or si and do the b16A sirII swap you still need to hook up the knock sensor otherwise you will get a check engine light
06-27-2003, 10:07 AM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (spooned out)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spooned out »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">even if you have the 92-95 civic ex or si and do the b16A sirII swap you still need to hook up the knock sensor otherwise you will get a check engine light</TD></TR></TABLE>
not necessarily. If he uses a stock P28 ecu, or has the P28 ecu reprogrammed or any other civic/integra OBD1 ecu reprogrammed for that matter, w/the mugen/skunk2 program for instance, the ecu will not look for the knock sensor since it's disabled in the programming.
but yes, if he happens to use a genuine, unchipped DOHC VTEC ecu, it will look for a KS and he will get a check engine light if it's not hooked up.
not necessarily. If he uses a stock P28 ecu, or has the P28 ecu reprogrammed or any other civic/integra OBD1 ecu reprogrammed for that matter, w/the mugen/skunk2 program for instance, the ecu will not look for the knock sensor since it's disabled in the programming.
but yes, if he happens to use a genuine, unchipped DOHC VTEC ecu, it will look for a KS and he will get a check engine light if it's not hooked up.
06-27-2003, 10:14 AM
#17
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Re: (spooned out)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spooned out »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">even if you have the 92-95 civic ex or si and do the b16A sirII swap you still need to hook up the knock sensor otherwise you will get a check engine light</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is there any benifit to hooking up the knock sensor?
Is there any benifit to hooking up the knock sensor?
06-27-2003, 10:22 AM
#18
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (POS Hatchback)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by POS Hatchback »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Is there any benifit to hooking up the knock sensor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
..well sort of, you won't have a check engine light, depending on what ecu you end up using. The stock honda knock sensor is known to be a bit wacky, as it kicks back timing way too much when it detects knock.
Is there any benifit to hooking up the knock sensor?</TD></TR></TABLE>
..well sort of, you won't have a check engine light, depending on what ecu you end up using. The stock honda knock sensor is known to be a bit wacky, as it kicks back timing way too much when it detects knock.
06-30-2003, 04:53 PM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (civic_power)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_power »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the tranny, do I use an civic si lower tranny mount w/ stock upper tranny mount?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes.
yes.
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