Nice s2k article
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,503
Likes: 0
From: Northern NJ, USA
Nice s2k article
The Comeback Kid
The S2000 has been revamped, and this time it means business, as the Boxster 2.7 is about to find out...
April 2002 (evo magazine)
Honda S2000 v Porsche Boxster
t's on record that we at evo aren't big fans of the S2000. Way back in the summer of '99 we drove three sports cars to the car's launch party in the south of France to help discover just what sort of roadster Honda had created. We weren't sure whether we were going to find a back-to-basics sports car, a high-quality sophisticate or a brawny, raw thrills rag-top, which is why our trio of gate crashers was the Elise, Boxster and Griffith, evo icons all.
Our expectations were high, fuelled by an uncompromising and downright thrilling on-paper specification. To the traditional front-engine/rear-drive layout the S2000 added the world's most powerful and highest-revving normally aspirated 2-litre production engine, a snickety six-speed gearbox and, in the tail, a torque-sensing differential to ensure that all 237bhp would be deployed effectively. The specification also included an impressively stiff bodyshell, double-wishbone suspension all round and high-geared, electrically-assisted steering.
However, it was soon clear that although Honda's engineers had cracked harder puzzles – the mid-engine layout with the NSX, the fiercely potent front-driver with numerous Type-Rs – they had fumbled the most straight-forward. Despite boasting all the right ingredients, the S2000 was rather half-baked, and its chassis left us feeling unsatisfied. Cheated, even.
Our principle gripes were numb steering, dull turn-in and rear suspension that felt squirmy under load. This made the S2000 rather woolly and tricky to drive hard, especially if the surface was bumpy. Oversteer was a challenge without reward, the rear-end breaking away and regaining grip untidily, and even in brisk driving the chassis' general lack of crispness made that screaming engine hard to exploit.
It was a missed opportunity, a shot stubbed wide of an open goal after superb build-up play. The S2000 should have plugged a gaping hole in the sports car market between the Elise and Boxster and become the stand-out choice for enthusiasts among a group of under-achieving soft-tops, namely the Z3, SLK and TT Roadster.
The great news is that the new, 2002 model year S2000 has the ability to kick some flabby German ***. In fact, once we'd tried it, we realised we could save ourselves the effort of group-testing it against its price rivals (Z3 3.0, SLK 230K and 180bhp TT) and simply benchmark it against the class of the field, the 2.7-litre Boxster.
Precisely what has changed on the S2000 wasn't initially clear. Official 2002 UK cars are arriving as you read this, and dealers are promoting it on the basis of more goodies. For £25,995, standard kit now includes an uprated hi-fi with CD player and – the big selling point – a heated glass rear screen instead of the previous plastic item. There's extra chrome for the Xenon headlamps and for the rear lights, and sundry detail tweaks to the interior. Also, for an extra £1000 you can have the 'GT' – the same model with a removable hardtop.
No mention is made of chassis improvements, apart from a slightly more deeply dished wheel design. Even resorting to the web I could find only one comment relating to the '02's dynamics, on an American chat room which opined that they were 'as before'. Well, maybe they are for US S2000s but they certainly aren't for European cars. We drove an '01 car as recently as last September and it didn't take more than a few miles in the '02 to sense very worthwhile tweaks.
This car is a personal import that cost Chris Metcalfe (friend of, but no relation to, Harry) an incredible £22,500. He can't believe his luck. 'I knew you guys at evo didn't rate the S2000 dynamically but driving it back over some great roads I thought "Hang on, this is pretty bloody good!" I was wondering if I'd lost the plot!'
He hadn't, and a bit more pressure on the Honda UK press office finally turned up some quite significant chassis changes. Essentially they are: thinner anti-roll bars, beefed up springs, re-calibrated dampers and 'matured steering feel'. The aim of the mods is 'more linear response', which we take to mean more predictable handling. Initial impressions are very positive but the real test will be to see if the S2000 can shine alongside the Boxster, itself improved since that first meeting, from sweet-spinning 2.5 into gutsier and more satisfying 2.7. Game on.
Metcalfe (C) is never short of an opinion, and reckons you can't buy a basic £31,500 Boxster. 'You need leather and air conditioning and 17-inch wheels if you're going to sell it,' he says. Perhaps, but we've driven many examples and for driver satisfaction a non-air, cloth-trimmed, 16in-wheeled base model does the job. For the record, this Boxster is loaded. It has the 'sport design pack' providing leather sports seats and embossed diamond pattern trim, Litronic (Xenon) headlamps, PSM, metallic burnt orange paint, 17in wheels, sports exhaust and sports suspension, making it a £39,000 car, without air. Mind, the only options box we'd tick to improve the basic Boxster's abilities would be the one for 17in rims.
First job after meeting up with Chris M and snapper Andy Morgan, who arrived in said Boxster, is a run to refresh my memory banks as to why we rate the Porsche so highly. Having stepped out of our unyieldingly stiff long-term Evo VII RS Sprint, the suppleness and charisma of the Boxster are soon weaving their magic. These Beds/Bucks B-roads are sinuous and, quite frankly, blighted by horrid undulating cambers and myriad humps and bumps that would seriously test the poise of the best luxury saloons. The Porsche copes admirably, tracking true and straight with minimal distraction, turns keenly and settles comfortably into corners before powering out on a wave of creamy, flat-six torque.
There's a deceptively heavy feel to the Boxster, imbued partly by the lazy, unstressed note of its engine and the length of its gearing, which sees third stretch to just over 100mph.
The same road in the S2000 is a very different experience, though not in terms of chassis composure. Twist the key, hit the big red starter button and the four-pot motor churns into life with a hollow, plain burble. Honda's VTEC motors are often accused of lacking torque but this one picks up nicely in the mid-range, punting the S2000 down the road keenly. It feels like a much lighter car, though the stats say it weighs exactly the same as the Boxster – 1260kg.
The big news is that the Honda's ability to parry and absorb bumps and shrug off wicked cambers is every bit as good as the Porsche's. The rear end now seems to hold up better and also has less lateral give, while the front has noticeably more turn-in precision. These improvements combine to make the S2000 much more driveable – you now feel encouraged to lean on the grip into, through and especially out of corners, which means it's easier to keep the engine on the boil.
Cross country, the two are very evenly matched for pace. The Boxster has a low-rev advantage, its flat-six punching it out of tight turns with more conviction, while the S2000's high-rev vigour kicks in just as the Porsche is waning, tipping the balance slightly in its favour on straights. With six gears and 9000rpm to play with, the Honda is naturally more frenetic, though you don't have to wind it right out. If you're concentrating on threading the car down a weaving road, around 8000rpm is a natural shift point. Urge builds usefully up to 6000rpm, the onset of the higher lift VTEC cams, and then seems to ramp up in stages, a second kick arriving at 7000rpm with a nape-prickling, Touring Car-style bark.
By ordinary standards the Boxster's gearshift is peachy – light, precise and fast – but the S2000's makes it feel long-winded and its brake feel shades the Porsche's with keener initial response, though the power of both isn't in doubt.
The Porsche is still marginally the more satisfying car to drive. Its steering wheel seems big after the Honda's chunky little rim, but its weighting and feel are superior. The S2000's feels meaty but there remains a lack of detail and feedback, and at a pace the assistance seems to drop away to discourage you from sharp inputs that might upset the rear. The Boxster chassis remains that bit more responsive and willing, while the other factor that puts you more at ease is its low-slung driving position which helps make you feel more at the centre of things, more a part of the car. Jump into the Honda straight after a blat in the Porsche and the fixed wheel seems set too low, the seat a little high and less supportive.
If we had the money and we wanted the very best we'd still go for a Boxster but, thanks to those chassis changes, the S2000 is now a genuine contender, a solid four-star evo car. It's not as special looking, it's steering lacks ultimate feel, and its frenetic character can make it hard work. But it's a lot more like the car we hoped we'd find at the launch back in '99. Indeed, with leather, air, electric hood, Xenon lights, Honda build quality and a three-year warranty, it's now a bit of a bargain, even at the UK list price of £25,995. And at £22,500, it's an absolute steal...
[Modified by hooptie157, 6:16 AM 10/26/2002]
The S2000 has been revamped, and this time it means business, as the Boxster 2.7 is about to find out...
April 2002 (evo magazine)
Honda S2000 v Porsche Boxster
t's on record that we at evo aren't big fans of the S2000. Way back in the summer of '99 we drove three sports cars to the car's launch party in the south of France to help discover just what sort of roadster Honda had created. We weren't sure whether we were going to find a back-to-basics sports car, a high-quality sophisticate or a brawny, raw thrills rag-top, which is why our trio of gate crashers was the Elise, Boxster and Griffith, evo icons all.
Our expectations were high, fuelled by an uncompromising and downright thrilling on-paper specification. To the traditional front-engine/rear-drive layout the S2000 added the world's most powerful and highest-revving normally aspirated 2-litre production engine, a snickety six-speed gearbox and, in the tail, a torque-sensing differential to ensure that all 237bhp would be deployed effectively. The specification also included an impressively stiff bodyshell, double-wishbone suspension all round and high-geared, electrically-assisted steering.
However, it was soon clear that although Honda's engineers had cracked harder puzzles – the mid-engine layout with the NSX, the fiercely potent front-driver with numerous Type-Rs – they had fumbled the most straight-forward. Despite boasting all the right ingredients, the S2000 was rather half-baked, and its chassis left us feeling unsatisfied. Cheated, even.
Our principle gripes were numb steering, dull turn-in and rear suspension that felt squirmy under load. This made the S2000 rather woolly and tricky to drive hard, especially if the surface was bumpy. Oversteer was a challenge without reward, the rear-end breaking away and regaining grip untidily, and even in brisk driving the chassis' general lack of crispness made that screaming engine hard to exploit.
It was a missed opportunity, a shot stubbed wide of an open goal after superb build-up play. The S2000 should have plugged a gaping hole in the sports car market between the Elise and Boxster and become the stand-out choice for enthusiasts among a group of under-achieving soft-tops, namely the Z3, SLK and TT Roadster.
The great news is that the new, 2002 model year S2000 has the ability to kick some flabby German ***. In fact, once we'd tried it, we realised we could save ourselves the effort of group-testing it against its price rivals (Z3 3.0, SLK 230K and 180bhp TT) and simply benchmark it against the class of the field, the 2.7-litre Boxster.
Precisely what has changed on the S2000 wasn't initially clear. Official 2002 UK cars are arriving as you read this, and dealers are promoting it on the basis of more goodies. For £25,995, standard kit now includes an uprated hi-fi with CD player and – the big selling point – a heated glass rear screen instead of the previous plastic item. There's extra chrome for the Xenon headlamps and for the rear lights, and sundry detail tweaks to the interior. Also, for an extra £1000 you can have the 'GT' – the same model with a removable hardtop.
No mention is made of chassis improvements, apart from a slightly more deeply dished wheel design. Even resorting to the web I could find only one comment relating to the '02's dynamics, on an American chat room which opined that they were 'as before'. Well, maybe they are for US S2000s but they certainly aren't for European cars. We drove an '01 car as recently as last September and it didn't take more than a few miles in the '02 to sense very worthwhile tweaks.
This car is a personal import that cost Chris Metcalfe (friend of, but no relation to, Harry) an incredible £22,500. He can't believe his luck. 'I knew you guys at evo didn't rate the S2000 dynamically but driving it back over some great roads I thought "Hang on, this is pretty bloody good!" I was wondering if I'd lost the plot!'
He hadn't, and a bit more pressure on the Honda UK press office finally turned up some quite significant chassis changes. Essentially they are: thinner anti-roll bars, beefed up springs, re-calibrated dampers and 'matured steering feel'. The aim of the mods is 'more linear response', which we take to mean more predictable handling. Initial impressions are very positive but the real test will be to see if the S2000 can shine alongside the Boxster, itself improved since that first meeting, from sweet-spinning 2.5 into gutsier and more satisfying 2.7. Game on.
Metcalfe (C) is never short of an opinion, and reckons you can't buy a basic £31,500 Boxster. 'You need leather and air conditioning and 17-inch wheels if you're going to sell it,' he says. Perhaps, but we've driven many examples and for driver satisfaction a non-air, cloth-trimmed, 16in-wheeled base model does the job. For the record, this Boxster is loaded. It has the 'sport design pack' providing leather sports seats and embossed diamond pattern trim, Litronic (Xenon) headlamps, PSM, metallic burnt orange paint, 17in wheels, sports exhaust and sports suspension, making it a £39,000 car, without air. Mind, the only options box we'd tick to improve the basic Boxster's abilities would be the one for 17in rims.
First job after meeting up with Chris M and snapper Andy Morgan, who arrived in said Boxster, is a run to refresh my memory banks as to why we rate the Porsche so highly. Having stepped out of our unyieldingly stiff long-term Evo VII RS Sprint, the suppleness and charisma of the Boxster are soon weaving their magic. These Beds/Bucks B-roads are sinuous and, quite frankly, blighted by horrid undulating cambers and myriad humps and bumps that would seriously test the poise of the best luxury saloons. The Porsche copes admirably, tracking true and straight with minimal distraction, turns keenly and settles comfortably into corners before powering out on a wave of creamy, flat-six torque.
There's a deceptively heavy feel to the Boxster, imbued partly by the lazy, unstressed note of its engine and the length of its gearing, which sees third stretch to just over 100mph.
The same road in the S2000 is a very different experience, though not in terms of chassis composure. Twist the key, hit the big red starter button and the four-pot motor churns into life with a hollow, plain burble. Honda's VTEC motors are often accused of lacking torque but this one picks up nicely in the mid-range, punting the S2000 down the road keenly. It feels like a much lighter car, though the stats say it weighs exactly the same as the Boxster – 1260kg.
The big news is that the Honda's ability to parry and absorb bumps and shrug off wicked cambers is every bit as good as the Porsche's. The rear end now seems to hold up better and also has less lateral give, while the front has noticeably more turn-in precision. These improvements combine to make the S2000 much more driveable – you now feel encouraged to lean on the grip into, through and especially out of corners, which means it's easier to keep the engine on the boil.
Cross country, the two are very evenly matched for pace. The Boxster has a low-rev advantage, its flat-six punching it out of tight turns with more conviction, while the S2000's high-rev vigour kicks in just as the Porsche is waning, tipping the balance slightly in its favour on straights. With six gears and 9000rpm to play with, the Honda is naturally more frenetic, though you don't have to wind it right out. If you're concentrating on threading the car down a weaving road, around 8000rpm is a natural shift point. Urge builds usefully up to 6000rpm, the onset of the higher lift VTEC cams, and then seems to ramp up in stages, a second kick arriving at 7000rpm with a nape-prickling, Touring Car-style bark.
By ordinary standards the Boxster's gearshift is peachy – light, precise and fast – but the S2000's makes it feel long-winded and its brake feel shades the Porsche's with keener initial response, though the power of both isn't in doubt.
The Porsche is still marginally the more satisfying car to drive. Its steering wheel seems big after the Honda's chunky little rim, but its weighting and feel are superior. The S2000's feels meaty but there remains a lack of detail and feedback, and at a pace the assistance seems to drop away to discourage you from sharp inputs that might upset the rear. The Boxster chassis remains that bit more responsive and willing, while the other factor that puts you more at ease is its low-slung driving position which helps make you feel more at the centre of things, more a part of the car. Jump into the Honda straight after a blat in the Porsche and the fixed wheel seems set too low, the seat a little high and less supportive.
If we had the money and we wanted the very best we'd still go for a Boxster but, thanks to those chassis changes, the S2000 is now a genuine contender, a solid four-star evo car. It's not as special looking, it's steering lacks ultimate feel, and its frenetic character can make it hard work. But it's a lot more like the car we hoped we'd find at the launch back in '99. Indeed, with leather, air, electric hood, Xenon lights, Honda build quality and a three-year warranty, it's now a bit of a bargain, even at the UK list price of £25,995. And at £22,500, it's an absolute steal...
[Modified by hooptie157, 6:16 AM 10/26/2002]
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post