Both the head and block in my S2K are damaged, so I'm evaluating various options for a repair or replacement. Appreciate any insight or recommendations.

Some options I'm considering.
1. Drop in a new MY2004 F20C
2. Used JDM motor
3. Rebuild / stroke the damaged motor
4. Spoon F20C

Recommendations on shops with excellent experience building/rebuilding F20Cs?

Thanks in advance,
-MSM


Modified by MSM_S2K at 5:50 PM 3/18/2004

 

the JDM motor will only have a slightly higher compression - not really worth it.

drop chris a line at http://www.chrisdrivesafastcar.com - he can tell you the dos and donts about any kind of motor rebuilding/buildup that you might inquire about. but depending on any damage to the block or head itself... other than just bent valves, might want to tack on a few extra bucks to the budget for incidentals that might crop up.

 

Thanks. I tried contacting Chris, but the contact link on his site is broken.

 

contact Joe @ alaniztechnologies.com for your options. First figure out what you want to do with the car, if it's your daily, just have it rebuilt replacing the damaged components. If you plan to race it, then think about doing something other than stock.

 

Thanks Vapor. I'll contact him.

FYI -- car is primarily used for racing. Current setup (minus the motor ):
- Comptech adjustable front sway bar
- Comptech x-brace
- Excedy Hyperclutch
- 4.77 FD
- Custom Koni coilovers
- Volk CE28s with R compounds
- Custom fabricated rollbar
- Sparco Pro2000 seats
- UK alignment specs

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSM_S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks Vapor. I'll contact him.

FYI -- car is primarily used for racing. Current setup (minus the motor ):
- Comptech adjustable front sway bar
- Comptech x-brace
- Excedy Hyperclutch
- 4.77 FD
- Custom Koni coilovers
- Volk CE28s with R compounds
- Custom fabricated rollbar
- Sparco Pro2000 seats
- UK alignment specs
</TD></TR></TABLE>

which racing are we talking about? race wars like fast and furious or timetrials or autox or wheel to wheel? In all honesty, I wouldn't go with an insane build. Keep things stock for reliability. I've gained 30whp in ecu tuning and bolt ons on a stock motor. If you want some good gains, think about have the block resleaved and incrase bore but keep the stock stroke. Cams are do-able and you'll see gains but be prepared to build everything else that will help those cams work they way they are designed to. Toda would be the manufactuer to look for cams. Also keep in mind that a serious or mild engine build might bump you into a higher class. First find out what you're going to be racing in, then go from there.

 

Primarily Solo II SCCA. I'm not too concerned about car classing. I only do a few divisional / national events a year, so almost all of auto-x is regional. Any experience with the Spoon F20C?

 

Hey Mike! good to see you here, the cats in the S2k forum are good guys and a good resource. (thanks for helping him out Vapor)

Mike drives in ASP(for now).. here are some pics @our last event in all of it's tire cording glory







Hopefully she comes back even stronger.





Modified by DsR at 1:31 PM 3/18/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSM_S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Primarily Solo II SCCA. I'm not too concerned about car classing. I only do a few divisional / national events a year, so almost all of auto-x is regional. Any experience with the Spoon F20C?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

No problem DsR, I think help shouldn't come at a cost, certainly cost to view that help on a message board for that matter but that's just my opinion and it's off-topic.

Anyways, the spoon engines are blueprinted/balanced JDM engines which means you'll be paying a lot of money for a slightly higher compression setup. I wont not bother with that route. If auto-x is your game, then you'll want a car that has a good torque curve, top end wont be a concern for you. May I ask how the orignal motor went? Over-rev or oil starvation or just wear and tear?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No problem DsR, I think help shouldn't come at a cost, certainly cost to view that help on a message board for that matter but that's just my opinion and it's off-topic.
</TD></TR></TABLE>


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Anyways, the spoon engines are blueprinted/balanced JDM engines which means you'll be paying a lot of money for a slightly higher compression setup. I wont not bother with that route. </TD></TR></TABLE>

My feelings as well.. Even the B-series spoon motors are not mod'd enough to justify the cost IMO. I know very little about the F20C however. It seems to me you are paying for the name...

Mike I left a post for you on the scca board. There is a # to contact a friend of mine named Len (he works @an Acura dealer) Ill be calling him today as well, Ill get a price on the '04 motor if you'd like.

vapor, what are your thoughts on the '04 motor.. seems to me that would be the route to go. You would get more torque, but still have the OEM reliability.. and possibly a warranty.

also, the 4.77 FD is not the OEM FD correct?

 

Spoon motor is actually cheaper than buying a MY03. Even less expensive considering that the Spoon doesn't require the assembly that Honda OEM does (header & block are sold separately from Honda).

4.77 is not the OEM FD. I don't comment on the 4.77 ... as it technically takes me out of ASP, but no one cares regionally ... and the S2K is hardly nationally competitive in ASP EVEN with 4.77 FD.

-MSM




Modified by MSM_S2K at 5:13 PM 3/19/2004

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DsR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


My feelings as well.. Even the B-series spoon motors are not mod'd enough to justify the cost IMO. I know very little about the F20C however. It seems to me you are paying for the name...

Mike I left a post for you on the scca board. There is a # to contact a friend of mine named Len (he works @an Acura dealer) Ill be calling him today as well, Ill get a price on the '04 motor if you'd like.

vapor, what are your thoughts on the '04 motor.. seems to me that would be the route to go. You would get more torque, but still have the OEM reliability.. and possibly a warranty.

also, the 4.77 FD is not the OEM FD correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Funny you mention the 4.77 final drive being OEM or not, but it is OEM on say a mazda truck or Kia SUV. They are all made by the same manufactuer Mazda sources ring and pinion gears. The stock FD on all s2ks is 4.10 but with the difffernt gearing used on the '04 engine/tranny with the 4.10 final drive will yield similar torque acceleration maps as a '00-'03 engine/tranny with the 4.77s.

Honestly, I'd stick with the older engine and run the 4.77 final drive. I've found that final drive is a perfect compromise for all sorts of tracks and auto-x circuits as that removes the need to go to 1st gear on most auto-x courses. The '04 engine makes more power and torque, although it's rated to make the same hp as the older engine. It is a superior engine but I think you're better off considering a rebuild and with the extra $$$ left over from not buying a new '04 engine with '04 ecu to get an AEM EMS to tune the older motor and still have that extra 1000rpms to spare for different courses when running a lower FD like the 4.77s.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSM_S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Spoon motor is actually cheaper than buying a MY03. Even less expensive considering that the Spoon doesn't not require the assembly that Honda OEM does (header & block are sold separately from Honda).

4.77 is not the OEM FD. I don't comment on the 4.77 ... as it technically takes me out of ASP, but no one cares regionally ... and the S2K is hardly nationally competitive in ASP EVEN with 4.77 FD.

-MSM

</TD></TR></TABLE>

But the spoon engine require you to transfer everything over to it, and that spoon block is just that, a bare long block. You'll want to run a JDM/mugen/or EMS ecu to take advantage of the higher CR and run higher octane fuel.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSM_S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4.77 is not the OEM FD. I don't comment on the 4.77 ... as it technically takes me out of ASP, but no one cares regionally ... and the S2K is hardly nationally competitive in ASP EVEN with 4.77 FD.

-MSM

</TD></TR></TABLE>

hah.. so all that comment about the Funny Dog etc, was camoflauge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vapor &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Honestly, I'd stick with the older engine and run the 4.77 final drive. I've found that final drive is a perfect compromise for all sorts of tracks and auto-x circuits as that removes the need to go to 1st gear on most auto-x courses. The '04 engine makes more power and torque, although it's rated to make the same hp as the older engine. It is a superior engine but I think you're better off considering a rebuild and with the extra $$$ left over from not buying a new '04 engine with '04 ecu to get an AEM EMS to tune the older motor and still have that extra 1000rpms to spare for different courses when running a lower FD like the 4.77s. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Makes sense, in all the reviews I've read of the '04, they love the new powerplant, but miss the extra revs of the older version.

I didn't realize that 4.10 was the OEM FD.. thats pretty tall, I suppose the sixth speed helps close the gap.. I need to stop thinking in ITR terms

 

yep, the tranny has close ratio gears! It's very nice. What's funny is the reduction gear in the '04 tranny lowers the gearing to "adjust" things to the same rear differential assembly that is suppose to be "beef'd" up compared to the previous years.

 

In my experience, the 4.77 FD is the one to go with for the S2K. A lot of posts and comments from people without any direct experience talking about loss of top end. The reality:
- My S2K max speed with OEM FD 145 mph
- My S2K max speed with 4.77 FD 143 mph

Appreciate the pointer to Joe Alaniz. I'll post on how well it works out. Prospect of having 285+ RWHP with a NA F20C is pretty damn exciting!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSM_S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks. I tried contacting Chris, but the contact link on his site is broken. </TD></TR></TABLE>

the link might be broken but what about his address? chris@chrisdrivesafastcar.com or... chris@bulletproofautomotive.com

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MSM_S2K &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In my experience, the 4.77 FD is the one to go with for the S2K. A lot of posts and comments from people without any direct experience talking about loss of top end. The reality:
- My S2K max speed with OEM FD 145 mph
- My S2K max speed with 4.77 FD 143 mph

Appreciate the pointer to Joe Alaniz. I'll post on how well it works out. Prospect of having 285+ RWHP with a NA F20C is pretty damn exciting!</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I've been saying for over a year. I first got the 4.44s and got rid of them after a month for the 4.77s. It's an ideal gear ratio.