<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BB2H22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Quaife is spring loaded, and can break easier... though pretty hard to do.

Kaaz is stronger but will do about the same on a track.

There's nothing wrong with obx. It cant take as much of a beating but I have 2 friends that have had them both for 2-3 years each with no problems.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You have any evidence that the Quaife is weaker? I've seen an exploded Kaaz, but I have yet to see a grenaded Quaife.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, he has no evidence. Take anything said by this kid with a grain of salt. He is simply regurgitating BS he has heard elsewhere and taking it as fact.

OP: If you're building a mildly powered street car, just get an m2b4. If you feel like you're gonna hit the road course occasionally, get a quaife. Don't even consider the kaaz for a street car.

 

can't find where to get a quaife lsd for prelude or m2b4 tranny. anyone know the where to find it?

 

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.co...tials

or just buy this one...

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1815503

 

what about m2b4 tranny? where can i find it?

 

The M2B4 is the factory JDM trany with factory helical LSD.

Also there are gearing diff's between USDM and JDM
M2B4 - 3.307 - 1.950 - 1.360 - 1.071 - 0.787 - 4.266 LSD
M2F4 - 3.307 - 1.950 - 1.360 - 1.071 - 0.870 - 4.266

Or you could go with the M2Z4 which is the JDM Type SiR Tranny with factory LSD and different gearing.

M2Z4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266 LSD

Or you can go with any of the Euro-R or ATR trannies which have LSD and the best gearing. (For NA)

T2T4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266 LSD
T2W4 - 3.285 - 2.090 - 1.481 - 1.071 - 0.812 - 4.266 LSD
U2Q7 - 3.285 - 2.090 - 1.481 - 1.071 - 0.870 - 4.266 LSD


To find those trannies you will have to look around forums, perhaps someones knows a site where you can find one, or ebay.

 

what is the code # for atr trannies?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ge_itr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is the code # for atr trannies?</TD></TR></TABLE>

The bottom 3.

Accord/Troneo Sir and Sir-T = T2T4
Accord Euro-R (JDM) = T2W4
Accord Type-R (EDM) = U2Q7


Modified by 94Vtecluder at 2:58 AM 1/17/2007

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cool, I didn't know that about the Kaaz (as far as wheels being off the ground)</TD></TR></TABLE>

With all the ice we have around here I get a lot of spinning tires. If you parked on a hill on ice you can get nowhere quick even with a gear-type Quaife like I have. But the nice thing is that you can apply torque through the brake system (step on the brakes lightly) and the diff will lock up and get you out.

I have a few thousand track miles on my Quaife and am happy and over 20,000 miles on the street no issues. It works great on the street versus the open differential (especially in snow) and really well on the track. And IMO it is better than the M2B4 for road racing I think the Quaife has a higher bias ratio thatn the M2B4.

As for Quaife being "slow" on fixing/replacing popped diffs, if you race and have no backup parts (if you blow the transaxle/diff ) then you need better planning skills. Quaife won't offer weekend turn-around unless you pay for expeditied service. At least you can get an $800 quality part with no holds barred warranty regardless of the applicaiton, street or racing.

Pirate

 

what car does the IMO and m2b4 belong to originally?

 

m2b4 = jdm prelude w/lsd

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You have any evidence that the Quaife is weaker? I've seen an exploded Kaaz, but I have yet to see a grenaded Quaife.</TD></TR></TABLE>

A friend in a del sol had one explode on him at the track and he wasn't even on his slicks. I did a lot of reading comparing quaife and kaaz and yes, thats the information I came across. I'm not just repeating one or two people... thats just the general consesus that I got from reading everything.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No, he has no evidence. Take anything said by this kid with a grain of salt. He is simply regurgitating BS he has heard elsewhere and taking it as fact.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

And what the f**k exactly is wrong with repeating testimonials from other people? Isn't that how most people learn this stuff?... oh wait, I forgot... you were born knowing this stuff and the things you dont know- you just went out and purchaed the item and all of the similar items and then did a test on each to figure out what is best.. am I right? Give me a f****n break. Btw, I'm older than you...

Dont insult me again.

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BB2H22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And what the f**k exactly is wrong with repeating testimonials from other people? Isn't that how most people learn this stuff?... oh wait, I forgot... you were born knowing this stuff and the things you dont know- you just went out and purchaed the item and all of the similar items and then did a test on each to figure out what is best.. am I right? Give me a f****n break. Btw, I'm older than you...

Dont insult me again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oooh I'm scared. What are you like 25 and a half? I haven't bragged about how old I was since I turned 13. So heres how I see it: I have longer to live than you, and I don't have to wake up everyday and know I'm an idiot.

/you

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bb4ever &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Oooh I'm scared. What are you like 25 and a half? I haven't bragged about how old I was since I turned 13. So heres how I see it: I have longer to live than you, and I don't have to wake up everyday and know I'm an idiot.
/you</TD></TR></TABLE>

You dip shi*t. You called me a kid, thats why I said I was older than you.


...if you only had a brain.

 

damn it matt is logged on my ****

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nothing wrong with Kaaz. I had a Quaife, and I'm now running a Kaaz in the track car. I had a Quaife when it was a street car, then changed to a Kaaz when it became a track car. </TD></TR></TABLE>

kaaz is the ******* on the track..the only pitfall is having to change the clutches i guess...not to threadjack but 117- how long do your clutches last???

oh yea and to BB2H22 dont argue with matt...you'll never win...and no, people shouldn't learn by just passing around word...most of that crap is so dependant upon so many other circumstances that I have learned to take 99.9% of the "things I hear" with a grain of salt..

that said..Matt and me are gonna go play legos and drive our powerwheels around

 

BB2H22, you don't really have any direct experience that shows that the Quaife is weaker than the Kaaz? What have you done to actually come to this conclusion?

CGags13, I have probably 1.5 seasons on the Kaaz with no problems or slippage. It's in a 98 Prelude (2700 lbs with me and a 3/4 tank of gas), 204 WHP, and 225/45/15 Hooiser tires. I use GM Synchromesh FM fluid, and I've had very good luck with it. BTW, I have it set to 100% lockup. I could probably set it to 67% lockup to make it a bit easier to drive (a friend drove it, and called it "violent", as the car tries to rip the wheel out of your hands if you get on the gas in a tight corner). I think the driveability issues are due to too much caster, full lockup on the LSD under power, and a manual converted rack.

I've had both, but I haven't been able to compare the two. I'm building an engine for a friend of mine who has a Prelude SH that he races in HC. It has a base engine and tranny in it, though. He has a Quaife, and we just installed a manual converted rack in his car. Our suspension systems are quite different, but we run similar spring rates, so I'm curious to see what he has to say about his car with the manual rack, plus I think he runs quite a bit of caster as well.


Modified by 117 at 6:18 PM 1/19/2007

 

Why do you guys with SH's ditch the oe power/drivetrain? Weight? Problems with ATTS? Tunability?

Do you think the SH's 'superior' suspension components make a marked difference on a course? I think that front radius arm probably makes the biggest difference compared to the base in that it really only allows vertical movement of it.

How much caster are you running? I know more caster gives a more direct feel, but there's gotta be a point at which too much caster starts to adversely affect other dynamic axis of suspension movement, ie. camber angles.

Vig

 

I haven't had a chance to get on an alignment machine to measure the caster. The guy that I use for corner weighting does a string alignment. I'm planning to go put it up on a rack with a laser alignment machine before the first event of the season. If I had to guess, I'd say 4 or 5 degrees.

He ditched ATTS for a few reasons. Fully programmable ECU (Hondata), 4.714 final drive, LSD, and weight.

I find the SH suspension "odd." I haven't quite figured out how it works, as the radius rods attach to the knuckles, so the caster is somewhat dynamic. As the knuckle turns, the caster changes. The other thing I don't care about is that the SH caster is adjustable only to a very small degree. I have much more adjustment range on my base. I also like the base suspension, as it's a modified double wishbone setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vinuneuro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think that front radius arm probably makes the biggest difference compared to the base in that it really only allows vertical movement of it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

What exactly do you mean by "vertical movement of it?"

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I use GM Synchromesh FM fluid, and I've had very good luck with it. BTW, I have it set to 100% lockup. I could probably set it to 67% lockup to make it a bit easier to drive (a friend drove it, and called it "violent", as the car tries to rip the wheel out of your hands if you get on the gas in a tight corner). </TD></TR></TABLE>

wow so you'll easily see several seasons of racing with it..thats nice...poop man i wonder how the kaaz would act in an h22 egg...just with the stock lsd I've noticed mine in the corners doing it..i've developed a feel for it but when friends drive mine and dont expect it I see that "oh ****" look followed by putting both hands on the wheel...thanks man

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I find the SH suspension "odd." I haven't quite figured out how it works, as the radius rods attach to the knuckles, so the caster is somewhat dynamic. As the knuckle turns, the caster changes. The other thing I don't care about is that the SH caster is adjustable only to a very small degree. I have much more adjustment range on my base. I also like the base suspension, as it's a modified double wishbone setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

At speed you can feel the steering become more direct, larger the angle of the turn. Perhaps this dynamic caster has to do with that. As per Car and Driver 1997, a major feature of the sh suspension is reduced torque steer. All the suspension components are marginally thicker- minus the radius arm which is huge in comparison. I don't know how much that helps things.

What do you mean the base suspesion is a modified double-wishbone? The base and sh suspension are the same minus where the radius arms mount on the suspension side.

The caster is a pain to adjust with the sh, and moreover expensive at $100 a radius arm. An easier/cheaper way to adjust caster in this case would be to turn an adjustable balljoint and move the upper lca forward/back.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 117 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What exactly do you mean by "vertical movement of it?"</TD></TR></TABLE>

Look at the radius arms in the helms, both base and sh. You'll see that at the sub-frame end for the sh arm, there is a large donut bushing through which a large bolt goes through to the sub-frame. This greatly reduces unwanted lateral movements. Walter's spherical bearing was to sort of fix this problem in the base.

The SH radius arm is also massive compared to the base one.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vinuneuro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What do you mean the base suspesion is a modified double-wishbone? The base and sh suspension are the same minus where the radius arms mount on the suspension side. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's a big difference. On the base, the radius rod is rigidly mounted to the lower control arm. They both move together as one unit. Think about what a double wishbone suspension looks like (think of the S2k suspension setup). On the base, it's very similar, but the front radius rod mount isn't directly in line (i.e. parallel to the thrust axis) with the lower control arm bushing, so the suspension doesn't behave exactly like a double wishbone type. It's a bit "modified", if you will. The best way I could describe it is that the lower control arm (together with the radius rod) is just like the upper control arm, but the front pivot for the lower "wishbone" unit is moved further outward than the rear pivot.

The SH is completely different, as the caster angle appears to change as the knuckle is turned since the knuckle turns on the upper and lower ball joints that attach to the upper and lower control arms. The attachment point for the radius rod pivots around the lower ball joint for the control arm, hence this change in caster (at least, the way I understand it).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vinuneuro &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Look at the radius arms in the helms, both base and sh. You'll see that at the sub-frame end for the sh arm, there is a large donut bushing through which a large bolt goes through to the sub-frame. This greatly reduces unwanted lateral movements. Walter's spherical bearing was to sort of fix this problem in the base.

The SH radius arm is also massive compared to the base one.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd argue that the amout of "flex" in the bushings on the SH and base would be approximiately the same. It just happens that on one, the bushing axis is horizontal, on the other, it's vertical. I'd believe that the SH has less binding as the suspension goes from full droop to full compression due to its design, but I'd think the lateral flex in either one would be about the same. If you wanted less flex in the base, just machine the spacer shorter to squeeze the rubber bushings tigher, but you also increase the amount of binding by doing this.