kraquepype

Looking for input on an issue.

* The car pulls to the right on acceleration (Car will drift right on flat straight road on part throttle)
* The steering wheel noticeably pulls to right on hard throttle (Enough to feel, like a slight nudge.)
* Had the car aligned (needed it anyway since I changed from crappy coilovers to Koni/H&Rs). This did not change the pulling.

This happened after replacing the passenger side axle.

* Replaced with reman unit from NAPA. The original one is a reman unit from NAPA as well.
* It was replaced because it was clicking on turning. It did not pull at all on acceleration.
* This is the 2nd reman axle I've tried replacing it with. The first one did the same thing (pulling), and I thought it may be defective. Drove with old "clicky" axle and it did not pull.
* Axle nuts torqued to same specs on both sides
* Motor mounts loosened and retorqued

Other changes (these were done along with the axles. There was no pulling with these changes on the "clicky" axle.)

* Rebuilt transmission
* Innovative steel 60A motor mounts
* Driver side axle replaced with another reman NAPA unit as well.

Researching online I've noticed a some folks advising this is common for new axles. It seems odd since both sides were replaced. Tech at the alignment shop said something about motor mounts being out of alignment. I was wondering about that as well, but seeing as it didn't do this with "clicky" axle on same mounts I don't think this is it. There does not appear to be much in terms of adjustment with the poly Innovative mounts. They lined up pretty easily when I installed them.

Any thoughts?

Caoboy

Did your torque your mounts in the correct sequence?

I'm assuming this is the vehicle in your sig as well.

kraquepype

I'm not aware of a sequence for them. I'll look in my service manual.

When installing originally I tightened up the drivers side, then the passenger side. The rear mount I did last.

For the innovative or aftermarket poly mounts, is there a trick to aligning them?

kraquepype

Car is still pulling, put about 500 miles on the new axles. The pull is very slight if I'm holding the steering wheel. If I accelerate hard without holding the wheel it will visibly pull to the right.

This bugs me because it didn't pull until the new axle went on. Car is still very drivable. Thinking about going with a nice set of new Raxles or DSS axles.

The car also has a steering shake at around 70-80 MPH, so it feels hairy to drive on the highway. Does anyone know if getting axles with the damper collars on them would help with that?

Tyson

Was the old axle original?

did you remove the hub ring from the back of the knuckle?

kraquepype

Hey thanks for replying... the old axle was a reman as well. It was clicking when turning, but did not pull.

If you are talking about the ring at #2 in this diagram (http://estore.honda.com/honda//image...SH43B2700B.png) then no, those are still on the knuckles. There were no rings or anything to remove on the outboard spindle. Wheels appear to spin freely with everything tightened.

sumdewd

I've had this issue before and it was exaggerated by a bad rack end bushing and loose steering rack adjustment. Have you gotten under the car and shaked things down to see if anything's loose? A bad rack end bushing will audibly clunk if you push up/down hard enough on the passenger tie rod while it's bolted to the knuckle. Total PITA to replace if it is bad.

As for the shaking, are the tires in good condition? Out of round tires could definitely cause the shake at 70. I'd try rotating them to see if there's any change in behavior.

It does really sound isolated to the axles since you can change back to the other one that doesn't exhibit the issue.

I've personally used Raxles for the last 6 years in my DD. They're a top notch product. They have the vibration dampers and I have no weird wheel vibrations or pulling at all. I actually just sent my pair to Marty for refurbishment back in April because the boots finally started to leak on both. Still honored the lifetime warranty. I just had to pay the 40 or so in shipping.

kraquepype

The front end was completely refreshed recently, no play in anything. New upper / lower arms, ball joints, wheel bearings, even a new steering rack (It had the clunky rack end like you described... I couldn't find an easy way to rebuild it so I got a reman one.) Everything is pretty tight and aligned up. New tires too.

The only issues are the pulling and the vibration. The car has had a shake for a while even before I did any of the suspension work, so I expect its related to the wheels or the axles.

I had a shop tell me a while back that one of the wheels was dented, but I experience the shaking no matter which wheels are up front, so it doesn't seem to pan out.

Tyson

i dont know about NAPA remanufactured axles, but i doubt theyre really reman from OEM or have close to OEM dimensions. because EF axles are so close to DA and later EG/DC axles, aftermarket axles use the same ends, but they arent compatible with an EF without taking that hub ring off.

but if youre sure youve checked for clearance, and everything really spins freely, then theres not much to argue, except that its really atypical...

vibrations from the front could also come from a bad shock.

what happened to that bent rim? it should be fixed or replaced.

a vibrating front end should not be a violent shake at the steering wheel. if it is so, then your steering rack needs to be rebuild, and if it never has before, then it almost certainly needs to be.


i'm just having a hard time believing that an axle would cause any steering issues, and repeatable by putting the old one back on and off. the inner CV joint can float in length so its not like the length of the axle being different matters.

kraquepype

The NAPA reman axles seem OK. I think I know exactly what you are talking about with the dimensions though, I bought a new one from them once instead of a reman and it fit but bound up on the hub ring. I figured it was the wrong type and took it back and ordered the reman units. Those fit without binding.

The steering rack and shocks have all been replaced. To be clear, the vibration is something that's been there for a while, for as long as I've had the car from what I remember. The pulling is new and only started with the new passenger axle.

The axle thing is weird. The one take I've read on it that might make sense is that the axles need to be broken in, and tolerances may be tighter on one side. I'll drive the car until it gets warmer out, and if its still happening swap the old axle in again to make sure I'm not crazy. If its still the same deal I'll work on getting some "real" axles.

The shaking thing, I would like to get some new wheels to see if that helps. (Is there anyone in the Frederick area with some wheels they wouldn't mine me borrowing? )

sumdewd

I've never heard of breaking an axle in before. I've done a total of 7 axles this year for myself and friends. Five of those were Advance Auto "new" axles between 2 Civics, 1 Eclipse, and a Mazda 6. No other issues using them and the ADV auto ones didn't even have the damper.

I know you said you refreshed the front end, but have you done the bushings and/or looked at the wheel bearings as well? I've had some bushings do some weird things until I got the full PIC/Sonem kit for my 90 hatch. I also had bad wheel bearings that made for some interesting vibrations and noises.

Honestly, my next bet would be to change your axle brand, considering the old one doesn't have the issue. I've had very good luck with Advance Auto's cheap crap this year somehow (CarQuest). I've always heard of people having incredibly bad luck with the parts chain rebuilds that I didn't even mess with them on my car. Raxles are stupid expensive these days considering I only paid 180 for each axle back in the day. Advance Auto also has some pretty epic coupons online to knock off a decent amount of money.

Edit: Just read bearings and arms were done. My bad

sumdewd

Have you done the radius rod bushings as well? Just trying to get more info on the car's history. My car was only 18 when I replaced my bushings and they were easily half the size of the new ones. If those are bad, they'll let the suspension shift around a little bit as well.

kraquepype

Radius rod bushings done as well, used poly bushings for those.

I'll likely be going with a set of Raxles, they sound like they have a good rep.

Tyson

i still dont get it. how does an axle cause pulling, even after doing an alignment. theres something missing here.

i think raxles are amazing, should have been your first choice. i dont see a point in getting another set of axles.

kraquepype

I don't get it either... its super weird. The only other thing I can think of being an issue are the engine mounts. I have the steel Innovative 60A mounts on there. They installed pretty easy, and there doesn't seem to be much room for adjustment. Is there a trick to aligning them?

You are right about the raxles, I was being cheap though.

Thanks a lot for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

kraquepype

Well some time has passed and since its getting warmer I've been working on the car.

I ordered and installed some Raxles axles. They are of great quality, I was amazed at the fit and finish. They are also of the correct length (My pass axle was about 1/2 inch shorter than the raxles unit) so I'm very happy with them. Totally worth it for anyone replacing their axles. Installed the axles and a lower tie bar. The car felt good but I still got a slight pull and shake on the highway.

Ordered some new summer tires and wheels... installed those, and still shaky but it moved up to 80MPH rather than 70.

I also realized I hadn't adjusted my steering rack since that was new. I tightened it up and the shake and pull is gone. Simple fix, I feel so dumb for not doing it earlier.

The only downside is now the steering feels too "tight", the car doesn't want to correct itself when turning. Highway feels good but around town I feel like I could run off the road if not careful. I'm going to re-adjust it again to a different spec (I followed the FSM but that seems too tight) and see if I can find a sweet spot.

acmoc

To install the mounts, you place the car on level ground with all the through bolts loose. You tighten the rear torque mount first, the front torque mount second. Right engine mount third, left engine mount last.


I don't think that will resolve your issue. I think something else is responsible, maybe your old axle was compensating and masking it.

Two things cause it to go right; One, your caster, if the left wheel sits in front of the right wheel, it will not pull but steer in the right.
Two, Your camber, the car will pull more to the side with the wheel that has more positive camber. That tire has more grip and so it causes the pull.
I think it's your camber.

Also, most roads are banked to the right, to avoid collision. So a slight drift to the right is normal.

But there is a difference between a drift and a pull.
Check your camber and tires and report back.

kraquepype

Hey thanks for the reply. It wouldn't hurt to retry the torque sequence on the through-bolts. In regards to the mounts, I was talking about the passenger right and rear mounts since there is some room for adjustment. Should they just stay where they end up once all are bolted in, or is there a method to line them up properly. I don't see an obvious way to do that since there isn't much give in the mounts when those are loosened up.

About the camber, I'll have to find my last alignment results sheet. I think camber was OK but that is a possibility.

There is no drift when off throttle. If I'm heading straight, and mash the throttle the car wants to pull right.

acmoc

Dosn't really matter on those bolts. If the pull is on throttle, I think it could be torque steer. Look for a worn bushing, bearing, or balljoint.

kraquepype

Front suspension is all new... upper / lower control arms, bushings and ball joints, wheel bearings, radius rod bushings. There doesn't seem to be any play in the wheels last I checked.

Its been snowing and I haven't had the car out since my last steering rack adjustment so I'll see what state its in once it warms up.

acmoc

What about the tie rods? torqued bolts? How about the rear?

sumdewd

Glad you found a likely source to the issue. These cars are tough to get the steering rack adjustment just right on to preference. I've had both too loose and too tight. For a little while there I left my jackstands in the driveway to come back and adjust several times. Mine still doesn't return to center as well as every car with power steering I've driven, but my car also has bad negative camber from the previous owner's cut springs so I haven't cared too much.

Don't forget the USDM EF (ED) has unequal length axles, so the torque steer issue might be more prevalent without regard to what you do. I don't notice mine at all after fixing the steering rack issues though, so that's up for debate.

acmoc

It's a very small wheel base as well

Tyson

this is an alignment issue. or something like a subframe is loose or cracked.

you say you have gotten an alignment, but i am very wary its any good.

kraquepype

I took it out after my last steering adjustment, the pull isn't as bad and the steering isn't as tight or loose, so I'm getting near that sweet spot.

Took it on the highway again and the shaking is still there. This is with new axles (raxles) and brand new wheels and tires (Enkei 92s and Potenza tires).

One thing I noticed since I was on an area of I70 w/ a turn is that the shaking is worst above 70MPH when cornering. It isn't as bad when going straight. It seems with each improvement the shaking moves to higher speeds.