2x0

For the first 6 months I had my CRX it always cranked immediately.

Then one day after some hard driving I noticed that when I turn the key, sometimes it would take a second to crank.

A few weeks later, I had instances where it would not crank at all, but if I waited a bit and tried again then it would crank.

Finally got stuck at a gas station cuz the starter wouldnt go no matter what, so I push started to get it home and put in a new starter. (Duralast OEM rebuilt)

Started up fine first try. Then drove to work today no problem. Went to start it after work, and when I turned the key to start there was a loud "click" and then no power, like battery was switched off. Turn key off and back on, does the same thing. Third try it starts up.

I drove it to a shop bc I was scheduled for an alignment. Went to start it to pull it in the shop from the parking lot, and now it wouldn't crank at all.

We pushed it into the shop, and the mechanics started to troubleshoot the no crank issue. They found it to be a bad connection at the starter signal wire. They cleaned and greased the terminal and the car started several times.

I drove it home satisfied then later went to pull it in the garage, and again it won't crank at all.

What does this sound like? They checked the clutch switch also and said it looked good.

bbarbulo

Sometimes I've had it where a bad cable or battery terminal was on there enough to run some amperage, but when you demand a LOT of amps like cranking... it would just arc and refuse to send power. Litterally jiggling the offending connection would make it crank, so you just deal with that issue. Others, like you said a bad clutch switch, or bad ignition switch. Think that's all there is to that circuit... battery, cables, ignition switch, clutch switch, and starter/solenoid assembly. You've already done the starter and signal wire deal, there isn't much left to inspect. If you are confident in your grounds and battery cables, the obv one is the ignition switch. But even when a cable looks good, I'd check it with a thermal camera if you have access to that sort of thing.

2x0

I will rule out the clutch switch since that's easy. Ignition switch I'm not sure how to test.

Then could it be a starter relay?

I am not confident in the battery cables, previous owner relocated battery to the rear. I'll start tracing those connections also.

Thanks

2x0

Today when I turned ignition to start, everything just shut off again. So I Couldn't do the clutch switch test.

First I checked battery connections. The grounding locations in the hatch seem okay, they used 2 spots. The larger one was corroded so I cleaned it up. The power wire disappears under the cargo bins and I haven't found the other end yet.

Large ground
Small ground
Terminal
Under the hood it looks like this 50A fuse isn't too healthy, so I'm gonna replace it. Not even sure what it's for.

Bottom filament is black
Under the dash, fuses are good. But I found my main relay just hanging by the wires. Anyone know where it should be mounted? Might replace it just to rule that out.

Main relay chillin

bbarbulo

ok see those battery terminals... that's what I'm taking about, those are absolute ****. you try to pull significant amperage through there and they poo the bed. the only way to get the right kind of connection is a proper lug crimper and a lug, then bolt those to a terminal. I can't say for certain that THAT is your problem, but assuming those are doing their job can have you chasing your tail to no end. I'm sure many people use those without issue, but I guarantee it doesn't make a GOOD connection. Try this, pull each wire from the battery terminal, trim it back, maybe even solder it into the battery terminal. See if that resolves your problems. Costs next to nothing and eliminates one (likely) possibility.

2x0

Thanks for letting me know that! The positive one did look kinda burnt =\

Is it where the wire connects to the terminal, or where it contacts the post that's a problem? I should be able to find some oem style terminal clamps and swap them out if that's the case.

I also picked up a new 50A fuse and main relay today just to rule those out. They looked iffy. I'll get those in tomorrow and continue to work on the battery connections.

Thanks for the help!

bbarbulo

It's where the wire goes into the terminal that is an issue. The factory terminals are crimped into the wire, and the whole thing becomes a solid piece of copper essentially because the pressure is so high... basically cold forged together. That factory connection is air tight. What you have is a mess. You depend on a screw to catch a strand or ten. That's no way to make a connection. In industry it would never pass inspection.

2x0

I saw exactly what you're talking about today when I took them apart. The positive wire was all burnt and corroded inside the terminal. The small ground still had the sheathing on where the screw was pinching it.

I bought new wire ends and terminals that are the clamping type. Cut the wires and stripped a fresh bit on the end to crimp into the new ends. I need better crimpers but it should be loads better already. I'll get pics tonight or tomorrow.

I also put in a new main relay today, the old one had some cracked solder joints and I'd rather not mess with it. Got the new one secured much better so it's not hanging by the wires.

I cant find the clutch switch to bypass it, but if this all works then I guess I'll get to that when I need to.

bbarbulo

this is how I found the terminals in my odyssey... crap



this is how I fixed it

2x0

Thanks for sharing. I think I am going to take back the terminal adapters that I bought and find some beefier ones with two places to bolt the wires to, like the ones you have.

2x0

This is how I redid mine. Also moved the battery to other side of hatch, shortened main ground wire by a foot. The battery was just bouncing around in the box, which was bungee strapped down. I bolted the box to the floor and used a battery tie down. Still need to trim the box down to just a tray.

Car started first try no problem. Idk if it was the battery terminals, main relay or what but it works. I know when I hooked up the battery, the ground sparked when it first touched. That never happened before.




Hopefully the cranking issue is no more.

bbarbulo

cool, keep us updated if the problem returns. but i have a feeling that did it.

bbarbulo

also, you will want to terminate those wires into lugs, then bolt the lugs to the battery terminals. copper will oxidize over time when exposed to air, properly crimped lugs are air tight and will never corrode inside.

but good job using a proper battery tie down. last thing you need is a battery to the back of the head if there was ever an accident.

browngrasscat

I hope its all sorted out now, the main relays are responsible for a lot and now a quarter century old. The ignition switches have a habit of showing their age as well. Either one is likely.
My main concern is the mounting.
If you wreck the car, you might not get hit with a battery, most of us like to avoid wrecks so let's focus on a good day where we got home in one piece.
Batteries release gases, gases that are now floating around your passenger compartment. No bueno.
For under $100, you can buy an NHRA approved, sealed box, with a vent. Or, you can make one if you don't care about sanctioning bodies.

2x0

Meh, I never drive the car with the windows up due to exhaust and burnt oil fumes anyway. I think battery gases are the least of my worries.

Someday I'll do it right or move it back into the engine bay. For now, it's functional and much safer than it was for hardly any effort.

Thanks

2x0

Alright I did some searching and found a Moroso sealed battery box with vent tube for like $60. It looks like a good way to go so I'll probably upgrade to that pretty soon.

Thanks for pointing that out.

browngrasscat

$60 is about what I paid when they first made the rule, and that was discounted (bought from a Moroso rep I knew). I think they were selling for $80-100 retail.

That's where I'm at, well, before I pulled the top end and found out the head is trash. Also had a starting issue only it's the pump that doesn't always kick on.

2x0

Here's something interesting. I drove the car for the first time since redoing the battery, and it now runs richer in vacuum by 1 to 2 AFR's. Voltage is about the same, and same happened when I induced load so I don't think it's the injector dead times.

Just thought that was weird. I pulled 5-10% fuel out of my higher vac columns and it's back to where it was.

bbarbulo

Almost all sensors use a logic ground, if the ECU (logic) ground is ****, it throws off all your sensor readings. Having a good ground is critical to a proper tune.

2x0

The car won't crank again after driving it a few times.

I checked the clutch switches, they have already been removed when the swap was done apparently.
Ignition switch seems good, because I can hear the amp draw change at the fuel pump when I turn the key to start.

This morning I went out and pulled the battery and it sounds like it is now only about 1/2 full of acid or water. When I carry it it sounds like I am carrying a bucket of water that is just sloshing around. So today I will get it tested but probably just get a new battery. Will post up the results.

2x0

Its not the battery, I had it tested and they said it was good. Then I pulled another battery from a different car, put it in the crx and had the same result.

I guess Im going to trace the positive wire from the battery but don't really know where else to go from there.

2x0

I cannot find any wiring issues. Anyone have any idea what this could be? Is there a simple way to test or replace the ignition switch? Is there an easy way to bypass all the electrical BS and just run a push button start wire straight from the battery positive cable to the starter?

What was an intermittent issue is not intermittent anymore. I guess if no one replies here I can start a new thread.

browngrasscat

Get a dvom,you want to check for voltage and amperage, ground one end, put the other in the small spade terminal on the starter (the little wire that doesn't come from the battery, I think it's blue). Have someone turn the key and see what, if anything is getting to the terminal.
Also check battery power at the starter (the bigger cable). No good - trade it back to where it is good. If it's good, don't bother.
If you have nothing, or very little, you move closer to the switch until you find where you have good power.
Ex: no/little power at points E, D, or C,good power coming out of B, your problem is after point B. Good power into C, not out the other side - the problem is related to C. Now I'd C is a relay, you do some more hunting.
On the other hand, the switch is like $25 new and doesn't take much to change.

2x0

Thank you. I was looking at the ignition switch and it does look cheap and easy to replace so I might as well. Based on my symptoms where sometimes I would turn the key and it would take a few seconds before it started cranking, that could be it.

Otherwise I will start testing power and signal to the starter. It is difficult because I work on the car alone, don't have anybody here to help out unless I ask my wife to do it, which might not go so well...

Great advice though

What voltage and amperage should I have at the starter signal wire and power wire with the key turned to start?

2x0

Alright so I went to install the new ignition switch, and idk if that is the problem, or if this rats nest of poorly spliced wiring is the issue.

They had three wires "spliced" into the wiring going to the ignition switch. I am guessing the purpose of some of this is bypassing the clutch safety switch, but not sure the others.


One white and one small blue wire are attached to the white w/red stripe from the smaller ignition switch connector.
and another white attached to the black w/yellow stripe wire.

I started pulling down the rest of the wiring that was done to see if I could figure it out. I then found these two yellow relays, which do not really appear to be OEM. I have no idea what these are doing or if a wire may have come disconnected from one.





Then, there is this brown mystery wire that appears to have some purpose. There was a bare end of it just hanging out which seemed strange. Then another part of it was spliced in on the other side of the large ignition switch connector.

Brown spliced into blue w/white stripe
???
????????????


Now I am really in over my head. I have no idea what all this wiring or the relays does, and it appears to have been done very poorly. What the hell do I do now?

If anyone has any ideas about what the function of these wires are, please let me know so I can start figuring out how to repair this.