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Hello all! So I've got a good one for ya.
1994 Honda Civic EX Coupe 5 spd
Forgive me for the long post I just don't want there to be any confusion.
***Mods Done To Car***
A/c compressor, Condenser assembly and lines upto air filter removed.
Neutral Safety Switch jumped
Aftermarket Radio, new front and rear speakers, factory tweeters.
07 Honda Civic EX Coupe muffler that took the place of my old stock muffler.
Unknown brand 4-2 header
Short Throw Shifter
96 Honda Prelude bucket seats in front
*No Soft or Hard codes stored in computer*
Within the last couple of months the car was not starting after getting gas maybe once each month.
One of those times the fuel pump failed to prime and made a weird noise like a frog growling or something. Yesterday I made a trip to Dallas (2 1/2 hour trip there) filled up and came back home. The car bucked once on the way back. Car sat 12+ hours and my buddy came over. His car died so I jumped him off and and turned my car off. Car sat for 4+ hours after that and then I went across town to taco bell and it bucked again. On the way back from taco smell it started to buck more. Killed it for about 5 min then left again and it started bucking consistently. Figured out that the position of the throttle determined how bad it bucked. Got mad and made a sharp turn then it got really really bad. Came to a light and took off and I had to do it ever so lightly or the car would jerk, slow down, kick the whole talape. It idles way better than it drives at the moment. Idle doesnt surge or anything but does pop burp out the exhaust every 10 or so seconds. It died several times on the way home and the fuel pump wasn't priming every time. I was able to recreate the pump not priming by priming it 2 times while getting 2 clicks, going for 3rd prime and getting one click, quickly tapped the relay and got the second click along with fuel prime. I'll post a video in the next 6 hours or so. Thanks everyone.
Sounds like it's emissions system related. Maybe the charcoal canister is saturated or lines or related valves blocked?
Another possibility is catalytic converter
*Update*
Brand new Main Relay installed and is now drivable again. Still spuddering at lower rpms and under load only. Car hasn't died on me or stalled yet. This seems to be gas pedal postion related. Taking off to about 2k rpm it acts like it's dying, sputtering but once you get up to speed its okay. Say I'm doing 45 in 4th and give it more than 1/2 throttle it starts slowing down and making a weird growl hum from the cat up to the motor. Idle it revs fine even at WOT. If I take about 8 seconds working the pedal down to WOT under load it drives fine and pulls hard. Very peppy for a little Z6. Going to pull the Cat off tomorrow and see what it looks like then try to get an Fuel Pressure Gauge. Just got done doing 75mph on the highway for about 13 miles with the Cruise Control on and it held speed like it used to do. Open to any ideas. Thanks for dropping in. Not sure how to reply to the guy or girl above me but thanks for replying and will check on the items you listed tomorrow.
*Update*
Brand new Main Relay installed and is now drivable again. Still spuddering at lower rpms and under load only. Car hasn't died on me or stalled yet. This seems to be gas pedal postion related. Taking off to about 2k rpm it acts like it's dying, sputtering but once you get up to speed its okay. Say I'm doing 45 in 4th and give it more than 1/2 throttle it starts slowing down and making a weird growl hum from the cat up to the motor. Idle it revs fine even at WOT. If I take about 8 seconds working the pedal down to WOT under load it drives fine and pulls hard. Very peppy for a little Z6. Going to pull the Cat off tomorrow and see what it looks like then try to get an Fuel Pressure Gauge. Just got done doing 75mph on the highway for about 13 miles with the Cruise Control on and it held speed like it used to do. Open to any ideas. Thanks for dropping in. Not sure how to reply to the guy or girl above me but thanks for replying and will check on the items you listed tomorrow.
Try a test pipe for a bit if your state doesn't do emissions testing.
Try a test pipe for a bit if your state doesn't do emissions testing.
so today I started by taking the dizzy cap off along with wires and cylinder one had oil in the tube and plug wire. Cleaned everything off and out and replaced the gaskets, o ring and such. Drove it and was still doing the same stuff. Thought okay let's look at the Charcoal Canister and it was hanging by the hoses. Might have fallen off from my hard shifts every now and then haha. The bottom hose on the canister wasn't hooked to anything so I hooked it back up thinking oh man this is the problem haha nope. It's back to being really hellish again. Starts fine, idles good but then under load it's bucking, bogging down and after firing out the exhaust, it just goes to **** won't idle right nothing. Start it back up and all is well again till under load. After a little research I accidentally came upon a pic of the Ignition Coil and it has a Spring on it. I haven't had that spring ever. Had the car since Feb of 2015 with no spring. So letting the car cool down then going to pull the Cat and drive it for about 30 min and see what happens. If that doesn't work then I'm going to lean torwards a fuel or spark issue.
Front of Cat. Big exhaust leak also where it met the down pipe. I could move it up and down.
Behind Cat muffler side. Not sure if you'll be able to tell in the pic but its melted.
Currently waiting just a little bit for everyone to wake up. Never ran the exhaust open like this before but I would assume it's loud as ****. Going to see if this was the cause of all my problems right here.
I think with the stock engine of your car there are O-shaped oil seals on the valve train and may be the source of oil on spark plugs .I'm not 100% sure of that though so maybe others will reply.
If Texas doesn't have emissions laws a local (non-chain) muffler shop would most likely straight pipe it for you for cheap. Can be temporary until you order a new cat. Pretty sure that's the issuefor bogging but again not 100% sure..lol
It is loud as crap with the pipe off. My buddy just gutted his 2002 Civic converter last year for doing similar crap. Would refuse to go more than 30-40mph with a huge loss of power and random misfires, but would idle perfectly. His looked close to the same as yours. FL has no emissions testing and a new converter is several hundred dollars, soooo
P0420 does pop up every now and then, but we have no other issues.
Okay so tonight I tried to get the car home and it didn't make it far. Decided to check and see if the computer got its act together and stored some codes and it did. Got a code 7 TPS and 41 Heated Oxygen Sensor. Both are soft codes only when ecu is jumped. The CEL light comes on when unplugging the TPS and cars running but goes off if you plug it back in. Code 41 has always been a soft code every once and a while. Had a new 4 wire Denso on it for a couple of months. I'm currently looking at how to test the TPS on Honda Tech right now. Will post another update soon. Again thank you all for your help and I'm checking any and all suggestions. Thank you
***update***<br />TPS Readings <br />• Good ground used test light <br />• .50 at closed <br />• 4.63 at WOT <br />From my understanding the TPS checks out for the most part other than reading a little high at WOT. <br />Found coolant underneath the car and it's dripping from where the hose meets the block under the Dizzy so I'm going to fix that. You could also put your hand on the radiator cap with engine running at nominal temperature and it's only warm. <br />Also cleaned the suface of where the spring goes on the Ignition Coil and it started at the bump of a key which was a first ever. Drove it home and it did okay. More than half throttle and it bogs and slows down still. I'll see if I can't post a video in the morning. This problem being somewhat intermittent is making it difficult to diagnose but I want to fix it. This was my first Honda ever and I love it so much. Just want it fixed and I'll be very happy again.
Next step is looking up how to test Map and Ignition Coil.
Tested the Dizzy using this site listed below and here's my results.
Coil - Ylw/Grn 12.57v (-)
Coil - Ylw/Blk 12.57v (+)
Blu - .02v
Ylw/Grn - 0
Not sure that I did this correctly but maybe someone can shed some light on this for me.
Blu wire was re tested @ 78.2k ohm from Blu wire to housing on Dizzy.
https://honda-tech.com/how-tos/a/honda-civic-how-to-test-and-replace-ignition-control-module-374873
Last edited by JustZachM; 06-27-2018 at 01:51 AM.
Reason: Wrong function on tool was selected
Found coolant underneath the car and it's dripping from where the hose meets the block under the Dizzy so I'm going to fix that.
The heater hose you're descibing has a tendancy to tear/leak at the location under the distributor due to distributor's O-ring seal leaking oil (common spot of oil leak). Even if it's not leaking oil from that seal currently it probably was and then repaired prior to your ownership. Hot oil will drip down from tha O-ring on to the heater hose and cause it to degrade faster than other coolant/heater hoses. One of my prior 6th gens developed a slit in the heater hose on that exact location, it overheated and then required a new head gasket.
Did you check ignition timing (distributor) and mechanical (crank & cam synchronization) yet?
Did you check for dead spots in the TPS, and not just closed/open throttle voltage/resistance? You need to make sure it has a very smooth transition all the way through the travel range to WOT, especially if you found a TPS code.
Have you driven it without the converter yet? That thing looked pretty jacked up and is definitely choking it out if you're still using it.
This is my youtube and theres actually 3 videos
Going to help my friend with her radiator then check Mechanical and Ignition Timing and TPS for dead spots. It was very difficult to move it ever so slightly so that I had no jumps in voltage. Might try and fab something up just for the test. I posted 2 videos on YouTube. If you type 1994 EJ1 in the search I'll be a couple of videos down in a circle. There's actually 3 videos. Bought a test pipe off of Facebook till I can order a new cat but my butt dyno didn't feel a difference when driving.
I know you said you had the distributor cap off and cleaned everything, but I had the same issue twice with my two Hondas and they each had a worn/burned cap and rotor and worn down plugs. Still didn't fix it even though I cleaned them. One of them even had the middle button worn all the way down even though the contacts were fine. Just the other week I fixed my wifey's 96 Civic with a new cap and rotor. Rotor had obvious burn marks on it. Same random misfire crap.
When my 90 Si did it, sometimes it would misfire through the range and other times it would just work full power. Would also randomly jack up if you went too hard on the pedal. My Si also just recently burned through the ignition coil last year and the ignitor in 2015. Have you checked for hot spark, and checked the resistance of the coil/ignitor units? It may be getting about that age for those old ignition electronics to start dying.
***Update ***
Still waiting on my friend to bring his a** and his timing gun but I found some other things while checking on a few things.
I reset the ECU after cleaning up grounds and plugs and got a new code. Code 16!!! This code is for the Fuel Injectors but the most common issue is the Main Relay. Upon researching I started to do some tests and A23 and A24 have good ground according to test light. G101 has good ground but still has good ground but the wires still have good ground disconnected...what? Yea I know anyways haha. I then proceeded to test pin 7 on relay connector to body ground for voltage and got nothing so I thing we're on to something here. When I bought the car and realized how fun and reliable it was I was okay with wiring issues later down the road but now that the issue has arose I'm less enthused with wiring. Will update on progress if I make any that is haha.
Okay so earlier today i fixed the coolant leak and began to check the timing. My harmonic balancer has a total of 5 marks on it instead of the usual 4. It goes III II theres a red mark in the middle of the 3 and a red on the two can't remember which side but I put it on the red 2 mark. i then noticed that the cam pulley was 2 teeth passed the pointer going torwards the front of the car. I brought it back about two teeth before the pointer and didn't notice much difference but it appeared to have helped a little. According to a few threads on here it needs to be directly on the pointer so I'll adjust that shortly. I was using cylinder one closest to cam for top dead center. I had taken the Main Relay I bought back and bought a fuel pump but I have a feeling it was a little bit of both. The Main Relay I'm using now is in the pic below. The fuel pump is not priming everytime and I have to tap it to get it to prime. What do you think of this relay?
The solder joints on the relay in that pic look okay but since you have it pulled you could carefully resolder them to be sure of good contact.
Concerning the timing marks: There's 3 ignition timing marks closely grouped together and 1 (one) mechanical timing mark separated (about 3/4 inch) away from the (3) ignition marks.
To set mecanical timing use the mechanical timing mark I described above at 1st cylinder's TDC. Valve cover removed to see cam timing marks level with cylinder head when properly synched with correct crank timing.
That's the original solder, and it's cracked in several places.
If you aren't sure about the marks on the crank pulley, remove spark plug 1 and probe in the cylinder to find the true TDC, where the piston is all the way up.
***UPDATE***
We now have a crank no start. After my p*** poor attempt at resoldering the Main Relay the fuel pump is kicking on every time now but it has turned into a crank no start. I am now taking steps torwards getting a new Main Relay and testing the dizzy components again. I have cleaned the trans to body ground, negative to body ground, valve cover to body and ground underneath driver seat. All grounds check out fine and I even put some good obd2 Civic fuel injectors in. Have to take the battery to Autozone today to have it recharged. Can the Charcoal canister be cleaned? I tried searching but I found tons of info on what it does and removing it. The car is in time and what not but now I'm somewhat stumped. Also should G101 ground wires on thermostat still have ground when disconnected from thermostat? Thank you all and everything mentioned is still currently being researched and tested as we speak.
***UPDATE***
We now have a crank no start. After my p*** poor attempt at resoldering the Main Relay the fuel pump is kicking on every time now but it has turned into a crank no start. I am now taking steps torwards getting a new Main Relay and testing the dizzy components again. I have cleaned the trans to body ground, negative to body ground, valve cover to body and ground underneath driver seat. All grounds check out fine and I even put some good obd2 Civic fuel injectors in. Have to take the battery to Autozone today to have it recharged. Can the Charcoal canister be cleaned? I tried searching but I found tons of info on what it does and removing it. The car is in time and what not but now I'm somewhat stumped. Also should G101 ground wires on thermostat still have ground when disconnected from thermostat? Thank you all and everything mentioned is still currently being researched and tested as we speak.
The charcoal cannister cannot be cleaned only replaced.
G101 is the ECU's power ground and logic ground termination point ..make sure it's grounded properly.
Loosen the fuel filter's banjo bolt and turn key to second position (fuel pump engaged), do not start engine and place a thick rag under the fuel filter to catch gas: inspect for good fuel pressure.
If fuel pressure is good try starting the engine in wide open throttle (WOT): this disables the fuel injectors, allows maximum air into cylinders and may help fuel flooded cylinders to dry out and engine to start.
Diagnose like any crank no start. It would be good at this point to imagine someone just brought you a car that won't start and you don't know anything about its history. Don't assume that anything can't be bad just because you have worked on it before.
Hook everything up.
Check if the CEL cycles and fuel pump primes when turn key on but don't crank.
Check for spark.
Check fuel flow. A much better test is to disconnect the return line from the regulator to the tank. Disconnect the hose where it connects to the metal line at the firewall and point the hose into a container. Checking after the regulator proves there is enough pressure in the rail to open the regulator. Also you're not spraying gas all over the place like loosening the banjo bolt will.
06-22-2018, 02:58 AM
Car bucking and dying
