pixshooter

I just became a member and my only other post is hoping that the 2009 Accord price might come down a little now that the 2010's have started arriving. (We got a few different models on Thursday).
I was searching the web and kept seeing threads about 2008/09 Accord Brake Problems. There is a thread on this site about it but it is closed.
Why would the thread be closed?
I would like to see if many owners are having this brake problem. Here is one site with numerous complaints. I have never heard of the site but would like some input from forum members. Thanks in advance.
http://www.carcomplaints.com/Honda/A...ke_crazy.shtml

Targa250R

I've heard absolutely no complaints about brake sqeals from my customers.

The only real brake issue with '08+ Accords is the tendency of the rear brake pads to wear down a bit prematurely in some vehicles. Not all of them have the problem, but I have seen a handful that required rear brake pad replacement before 20,000 miles and one or two that required it before 15,000 miles.

cowjazz

I have an '09 V6 EX-L coupe. Like you, I did a little research before buying the car. I knew to expect to replace pads around 15-20k. When that time came, I replaced the pads, and look at it as routine maintenance for this vehicle.

GoLowDrew

X2. This happened to the last gen too. I had to do brakes on my 06 sooner than what I was used to. Nothing is "wrong." Just cost cutting. Shifting (more) cost to the customer in the name of Maintenance.

Targa250R

Interesting that you'd put it that way, as manufacturers have been steadily reducing vehicle maintenance requirements over the last several decades.

Just think: 20 years ago in 1989, a brand new Accord required the timing belt and water pump replacement with fresh coolant every 60,000 miles, a tune up (including distributor cap, rotor, plugs, PCV valve, fuel filters, and air filter) and transmission fluid change every 30,000 miles, oil and filter changed every 3,000 miles, etc. Exhaust parts required constant replacement in the rust belt.

Now we have timing belt & water pump service every 105,000 miles (or potentially never for models equipped with a chain), a tune up consists of replacing the air filter every 30,000 miles and the plugs and PCV valve at 105,000 (no distributor and no fuel filter), oil change intervals with the Maintenance Minder system can be anywhere from 4,000-10,000 miles, and the filter is replaced at every other oil change. OEM stainless steel exhaust parts last 8-10 years or longer even in the rust belt.

We've gotten so spoiled these days that many people seriously expect to never have to perform maintenance on their vehicles at all - pretty unrealistic, if you ask me.

Given, cars these days have a lot more crap to break and require potentially expensive repair/replacement. Door lock actuators, power window motors, ABS, SRS, emissions equipment, etc. etc. Never had to worry about that stuff in the good old days. And let's not forget the people who buy cars that they can't afford, financing them at astronomical rates (with compulsory full coverage insurance) for 7 or even 8 years and making huge payments because they couldn't drop a down payment. Those sort of people want everything on the car to last forever because they can't afford to pay for the car and maintain it at the same time.

GoLowDrew

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/28/h...s-in-15-years/

"and engage in aggressive cost cutting to keep the company profitable in the current fiscal year, even as sales are predicted to continue their decline."

You are right, maintenance requirements seems to be extended than before. Why do you think that?

1. Better engineering.

2. More accurate measurements on actual wear and tear.

3. Having Hondas engine running 250-300K is not a good for business.

Your guess. Your money.

BLKFLSH

Car companies are now in competition for longer maintenance intervals. The internet allows people to check how much each competitors car costs to maintain. Ever heard a salesman say "this car can go 100k miles, before the first scheduled tune up". A few companies extended the major maintenance intervals, and the rest pretty much had to follow. You can go to web-sites like Edmunds.com, and find out what each car's "True cost to own" is. This includes all maintenance items. Coolant that lasts 100k miles? Oil changes at 10k miles? I don't think so. I think some companies are extendeding the maintenance intervals, much longer than they really want to, just to stay in the competition.

pixshooter

I went to the dealer this afternoon to look and maybe buy an 09 Accord if we could work the numbers. I will share my experience on my other thread (Questions for buying a new 2009 Accord during clearance sale) Took one for a test drive and mentioned to the salesman that I saw lots of talk online about the 80/09 Accords with squeaky/squealing brakes issues. The salesperson admitted they had a "few" with problems but added they fixed them in service dept. At least he admitted it. He has only worked there for 6 weeks. There sure are some upset folks on the link provided in my O.P. I did not notice any squealing and i drove on interstate and neighborhoods. Nice ride, but when we opened the doors to air the car out (Florida heat) I was surprised by how much water drained out of the front doors. We had a good rain the day before, and the design of the door holds water somewhere. Kind of worries me about rust in the future. How much water does not drain out? Anyone notice this with their 09 Accords? Awwwww, they changed the horn sound. I loved the old honda horn

schock3

The only complaint i have about my car (08 accord exl v6 M/T) is the braking system. They feel a little weak compared to all the other honda's ive had in the past. Other than that I love this car. Very happy i bought it!

Swapaholic78

I work @ a honda dealer. The brake issue you speak of is a common concern. Honda does know about it and hasn't put out a service bulletin out yet, but it is in the works. The dealer I work for is covering customers up to 24k as 1x goodwill. This problematic issue "should" be handled once the technical service bulletin is in place. IDK what Honda will replace or change though. Understand, that this brake setup (calipers,rotors & e-brake cables) is a different from 03-06 models as well as suspension & knuckle design but, the brake pads are the same. Also consider this, the pad surface area is only (approx) 3" long and 2" wide and 9-10mm thick (new). So before everyone goes trashing Honda, understand what strains those tiny pads go through on a daily basis. Like emergency stops on the highway and on side streets, some times fully loaded w/ passengers too. I'm not saying thay shouldn't last longer-the older 03-06 usually last 30-35k even 40 depending on how you drive. Another thing to keep (everyones) costs down is to reuse the same brake pads from model to model- which has been done before on many vehicles. B/c it costs everyone extra to design a specific brake pad for one model.....Just do yourself a favor and plan on doing rear pads every 15-20k.

pixshooter

No brake squealing? I talked with another salesman on the phone last night and told him about all the complaints I have read about online and his reply was that the 2009 models built later in the year probably have the issue corrected ...but he could not tell me what the issue was or if they would fix all the affected ones that owners are griping about. Hmm...
I still want another accord but they need to lower the price or 2009 more since the lot is filling up with 2010's.

high_revs

brake squeal and rear pads premature wear is a problem in 08-09 accords and honda tells me the same thing everytime i call tech line, no fix yet, we will release a bulletin when they have a fix...

pixshooter

high_rev I see the S2000 in your post. Do you also have an Accord or does the S2000 have problem also?

high_revs

no i work for a honda dealer, i've changed rear brake pads on 08-09 accords as early as 12k, also i'e done several front rotor/pad swaps for brake noise as per customer request and that doesnt last too long.

pixshooter

Your the man I need to talk to
Salesman is acting like there is no longer a problem in 2010's or are they making them different? I take it that this is sales talk. Besides the brake issue, any other concerns with 2008/09 Accords?
Do you have any inside scoop on whether price of remaining 09 Accords will come down in the next couple of weeks? The 2010's are in and someone on another thread said hat the dealer has to pay interest on these 2009 models that are sitting in the parking lot. It appears that sales are slow since cash for clunker is over.
I am looking at a Accord LX-P that local dealer now has for $21,303 before Tax, title and any other fees bring it up to $23,535.00 but I think it could go for less from what I hear.
I was so upset at with price change that Honda sales-staff (price on the phone changed when I got to dealer) pulled on me that I went and drove a Camry. Very comfortable ride. i could still go for Camry if Honda will not deal. I have not heard of any persistent problem with the 2009 Camry yet.

Targa250R

Sales != Service. You need to talk to the appropriate people on each end because neither is going to be completely informed about the other.

If you want a Camry, then go buy a Camry. Is a couple of bucks really that big of a deal to make you waffle so much? Have you gotten quotes from other dealers rather than just your closest? If you find out that you paid $200 more than someone else from the other side of the internet did, will you be butthurt?

It's good to do research before buying, but at some point you just end up overanalyzing things. The car is what it is. Hundreds of thousands of them have been sold in the past 2 years. Nothing has proven to be a massive failure yet, otherwise you'd have heard about it. You will probably have to change the rear brake pads at 20-30,000 miles, possibly sooner if you're an exception. Not that big of a deal; brakes are cheap. You will probably also have to change the tires around that mileage too, as with any new Honda. I've yet to see an OE set of tires last to 40,000 miles at least in my region.

pixshooter

Well, that is why I started my threads is to get input regarding Honda issues and current price for last year's car. $200.00 would not be an issue. $2,000.00 is. I would prefer to have an extra $2,000.00 or so in my pocket rather then the dealer. You know they can come down more. I just get tired of playing the game. They are all nice and give you one final out the door price on the phone and once you get there it all changes. You said ''I've heard absolutely no complaints about brake squeals from my customers'' I think it is great that 'NONE' of your Accords have had problems. My local dealer has admitted the problem to me and and you can see from other member and the link from my O.P. that that others are having issues. Please read the link and reply from Honda Corporate. These people are saying their cars have brake issues within a few day of purchase, not 20-30,000 miles. That is a problem. I know Honda warranty will attempt to fix it but it seems to be ongoing. I would be crazy not to research any vehicle that I was going to buy much less spend over 20K for. I love Honda and have owned 4 Hondas since 1980 but as stated, if the dealer won't deal (especially considering brake issue and last years model) then of course I will look at other options. The other dealers I am considering are about 75 miles away and in another state so I will probably make the drive next week. The good thing is I am not in the mentality that I have to have a new car, so I will not be hurt if I miss out. My local Toyota dealer experience has not been too successful either by the way. They have an awful reputation compared to other dealers in neighboring state. The salesperson told me Thursday that they did not have anymore 2009 Camrys and could not get any but he left a message yesterday that one turned up and just the color I wanted. Wonders never cease. Now if he can come down on the price some more My 98 Accord Ex is still looking and running great and only has 156,000 miles so I can afford to wait.

r710

we have seen numerous accords come in with brakes squealing. we have tried everything possible to fix this at my dealer. techline has us just advise the customer that its a characteristic of the vehicle and that once they come out with a solution they will post a recall or service bulletin. On the first few that i worked on, i noticed black spraypaint on the hubs. i turned the rotors and the customer returned a second time and thats when we advised the customer that we are waiting for a repair procedure to be published. ive tried re-molycoating the pads, replacing pads, turning rotors, replacing everything but the calipers but to no avail. what i have noticed is that if you heat up the pads a bit, the squeak/ squeal will stop for a while. as soon as i hear something i will post it up.

pixshooter

Thanks r710, I will look for your post. I see the other thread now with 5 pages addressing this brake issue. Not sure if that is the thread which was closed when I first joined a week or so ago. Why do they close a thread when an important topic is being discussed?

BLKFLSH

Because it has been discussed to death. Many 8th gen Accord owners are experiencing early/uneven rear pad wear. What else do you need to know? I'm sure, when there is a solution, if there is one, we will hear about it.

pixshooter

Sorry if you did not notice I mentioned that when I joined, the thread was closed so it did not do me or anyone else seeking information much good. I was doing my own search and kept seeing many links about the brakes.
I would of joined that thread rather then posting a new thread if I would of seen the earlier thread. At any rate I am glad that much attention is being brought to the problem. I notice many members say that they will just buy pads and fix. I am one of those don't have a clue about replacing pads, fixing brakes etc... and expect the same Honda quality that I have relied on through the years. It does not matter who fixes the brakes, it is money and time wasted by new Honda owner. I vowed in 1980 to never buy another Ford or Chevy and stay with Honda because Honda treated the customer right, did not cut corners and built quality cars.

Honda needs to get off their arsse and make things right. I am very disappointed at the way they are handling it. It makes it bad for the dealers too because they don't know what to tell possible buyers when confronted about the problem. In my two weeks talking with local Honda dealers in regards to the brake problem I have heard: It Does Not Exist, It Was Corrected On The Later 09's and We Are Waiting To Hear From Corporate On How To Fix It.

Mechanic

Pixshooter (et al), are you familiar with the expression, "The present eye sees the present object?" No? It simply means that if you come to a Honda board such as this one, typically you will see people discussing one of two subjects: car modifications, and problems they cannot solve themselves. Those two subjects, however, rarely are typical of all Honda owners.

Case in point: Several years ago, early owners of Honda's Civic EP3 -- let's call them overly enthusiastic -- were beating the hell out of their 2nd gear synchronizers. When the '06s came out, it was 3rd gear issues. Did every Civic Si owner go through this? No. (I didn't.) But you certainly wouldn't think so if you read only these threads.

It's the same with Accord owners. Some Accord owners have had rear disk-brake pad problems. And they are complaining loudly and often. On multiple boards. There are even a few former owners who've sold their cars and still return here and elsewhere to complain every chance they can about a $250 expense they incurred a year ago. Go figure.

But brake issues are not common to all Accords, and much (but not all) of what has occurred reflects how the car is driven. I know of what I speak; I have an new '09. I, however, have not had any brake problems, but then I do not dog my cars, and I pay attention to how they drive. I also perform routine maintenance and search out potential problems before they become headaches. But, even if premature rear pad wear were an issue, new brake pads cost less than $60 and it takes roughly a half-hour to swap pads. I've compared it to putting bread into a toaster. It's not difficult. (Now, if you ignore the sound of the wear indicators and ruin the disks too, that's another issue. Again, it comes down to how the car is driven.)

Moreover, brake issues are not unique to Honda (or any make, for that matter). Go to the Porsche boards. A new 911 GT3 will easily go through a set of brake pads in 6,000 miles. Does that mean all $140,000 Porsches are junk? Hardly.

Bottom line: All cars have maintenance issues of one sort or another. The Camry you are considering has automatic transmission issues. Is it a universal issue with all Camrys? No. It is with some. Also, all new (2010) Camrys require 0W-20 weight motor oil. There are no 0W-20 conventional oils yet. That means you need to buy synthetic motor oil. If you get your Camry serviced by Toyota, it will cost you twice what it used to. Will that be a problem for you? If so, you need to look elsewhere, because you are going to face that expense every 6000 miles for as long as you own a 2010 Camry and want to maintain your engine warranty.

I hope you get my point.

pixshooter

Mechanic, Thanks for the input. That is my objective is to gather opinions from members. Regarding the brakes wearing down, i can understand them wearing down if car is not driven properly but reading of brand new Accords with squeal is unacceptable. Since I don't own one I can only go by the posts, comments on these and other threads and local Honda mechanic admitting they had a problem. Regarding the Camry oil change. Thanks, I did not know about the 0W-20 synthetic motor oil. I cannot change brake pads, but I can change oil
Off topic but of interest: A thread regarding the oil: http://www.camryforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5346

SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for
good fuel economy and good
starting in cold weather.
If SAE 0W-20 is not available,
SAE 5W-20 oil may be used.
However, it must be replaced
with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil
change.

Hikaru

iTrader: (2)

same thread at the same page for one that already exist for 5 pages?

You need to search:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2567067&page=5

BLKFLSH

That thread was closed, I assume, because it was not providing any NEW information. That hasn't changed, with this new thread. Have you learned anything NEW, in this open thread?
If you read that closed thread, you know that after the first couple pages, it had no new information, and had become a bicker-fest long before it was closed. Until Honda comes up with a solution, this thread is destined for the same fate (pages and pages of nothing useful). When, and if Honda does come up with a solution, I'm sure one of the friendly Honda Techs on this forum will let everyone know. Constantly posting about the same problem, over and over again, only makes the thread longer and less useful, IMO.