Test Pipe
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Test Pipe
I am thinking about buying a test pipe to fool around with. Will black smoke come out of my tail pipe if I install a test pipe?
I have a 2001 Honda Accord 4 dr, 4 cyl. with an Injen CAI and an Apex'i WS2 cat-back exhaust.
I have a 2001 Honda Accord 4 dr, 4 cyl. with an Injen CAI and an Apex'i WS2 cat-back exhaust.
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Re: Test Pipe (iam7head)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iam7head »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cop could tell you are not running a cat a mile away 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
BS...
</TD></TR></TABLE>BS...
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Re: Test Pipe (concept11253)
Cops? Ok, maybe 1/2 a mile away
There will be a noise penalty with the converter omitted.
And unless you make provisions for the O2 sensor somewhere, you could effect the A/F ratio and could even throw the ECM into Fail-safe mode (fixed A/F ratio and limited RPM) (#18 in the illustration)
https://www.hondapartsdeals.co...B++02
P
There will be a noise penalty with the converter omitted.
And unless you make provisions for the O2 sensor somewhere, you could effect the A/F ratio and could even throw the ECM into Fail-safe mode (fixed A/F ratio and limited RPM) (#18 in the illustration)
https://www.hondapartsdeals.co...B++02
P
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From: Fremont, CA, USA
Re: Test Pipe (concept11253)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by concept11253 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am thinking about buying a test pipe to fool around with. Will black smoke come out of my tail pipe if I install a test pipe?
I have a 2001 Honda Accord 4 dr, 4 cyl. with an Injen CAI and an Apex'i WS2 cat-back exhaust.</TD></TR></TABLE>
im assumming this is for daily driven use and not a dragster or anything like that, so id say steer away from test pipes for now anyways
I have a 2001 Honda Accord 4 dr, 4 cyl. with an Injen CAI and an Apex'i WS2 cat-back exhaust.</TD></TR></TABLE>
im assumming this is for daily driven use and not a dragster or anything like that, so id say steer away from test pipes for now anyways
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From: North of Boston, MA, USA
Re: Test Pipe (P_Adams)
my car doesn't sound any different without the cat than it did when I had it in place.
I have no resonator either, turbo and 3" straight thru muffler are my only sound "bafflers" and I've never once been pulled over for sound or the lack of a cat.
I have no resonator either, turbo and 3" straight thru muffler are my only sound "bafflers" and I've never once been pulled over for sound or the lack of a cat.
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From: Bouncing off of the city bus in Saigon
it's dumbasses like you that make it harder for the rest of us to modify our cars. Removing your cat is not only illegal, it's dumb since it causes more pollition.
Want to modify your car? do it legally.
Want to modify your car? do it legally.
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Re: (notoriousB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notoriousB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how about you shut the **** up and worry about yourself and not what others are doing. go back to bashing the accord transmissions and leave me alone. 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Except everyone gets the shaft when some people break the rules of common sense. You are defnitely not going to gain much power on an NA Acoord by getting rid of the cat, and there are plenty of inexpensive high flow cat options. The carcinogens and pollution are not worth the 2 hp. On a turbo car a large high flow cat 3" will do fine.
I'm sitting here designing an exhaust system for a Civic hatch w/k24 that gives the best possible power but still meets emissions requirements, and it's people running test pipes that make modifying cars more difficult.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Except everyone gets the shaft when some people break the rules of common sense. You are defnitely not going to gain much power on an NA Acoord by getting rid of the cat, and there are plenty of inexpensive high flow cat options. The carcinogens and pollution are not worth the 2 hp. On a turbo car a large high flow cat 3" will do fine.
I'm sitting here designing an exhaust system for a Civic hatch w/k24 that gives the best possible power but still meets emissions requirements, and it's people running test pipes that make modifying cars more difficult.
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From: North of Boston, MA, USA
Re: (accordselux)
you guys go post that in the forced induction forum and see what kind of responses you two get.
I guess everyone in the FI section must be idiots then and have no common sense, by your logic. I pass state emissions just fine, thanks and no one is the wiser or hurt by my personal actions. What does common sense have to do with my turbocharged personal vehicle that I modify as I see fit, not as people dicatate to me?
My truck doesn't have any cats either. So sue me. I'm a terrible person. I'm done with this thread.
I guess everyone in the FI section must be idiots then and have no common sense, by your logic. I pass state emissions just fine, thanks and no one is the wiser or hurt by my personal actions. What does common sense have to do with my turbocharged personal vehicle that I modify as I see fit, not as people dicatate to me?
My truck doesn't have any cats either. So sue me. I'm a terrible person. I'm done with this thread.
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From: SoCal
Re: Test Pipe (notoriousB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notoriousB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my car doesn't sound any different without the cat than it did when I had it in place.
I have no resonator either, turbo and 3" straight thru muffler are my only sound "bafflers" and I've never once been pulled over for sound or the lack of a cat.</TD></TR></TABLE>
it's only so because of the turbo(which is a big **** restriction point)
test pipe will raspy the hell out of NA accord.
it's not worth it imho, emission ticket for a nonworking/non existing cat is around 600 here
I have no resonator either, turbo and 3" straight thru muffler are my only sound "bafflers" and I've never once been pulled over for sound or the lack of a cat.</TD></TR></TABLE>
it's only so because of the turbo(which is a big **** restriction point)
test pipe will raspy the hell out of NA accord.
it's not worth it imho, emission ticket for a nonworking/non existing cat is around 600 here
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Re: Test Pipe (ZigenBallz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZigenBallz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BS... </TD></TR></TABLE>
do you know any cop friend?
my CHP friend said so
do you have a test pipe before? i had one with my turbo and ihe setup.
BS...
</TD></TR></TABLE>do you know any cop friend?
my CHP friend said so
do you have a test pipe before? i had one with my turbo and ihe setup.
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Re: (accordselux)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accordselux »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm sure your future relatives will thank you for making the world a bit less livable </TD></TR></TABLE>
ok because you've replied civilly and without name calling I'll respond to this.
judging by that idealistic response, you must also belive that all race cars should run catalytic converters?
I'm willing to put money that a top fuel dragster puts out more emissions in one pass down the track than my car does in a full week of heavy driving.
how about the mack trucks? they should have cats too then? deisel freighters that burn THOUSANDS of gallons of crude, barely refined deisel fuel in one day - should they have cats too?
my car is the *least* of this world's problems and I think you should put your statement into perspective a little bit. there are much larger polluters out there than our little hondas with or without cats.
I personally know a guy who is running over 400 horsepower in his civic and is OBD1 so he has to have his car run on the emissions dyno every 2 years. guess what: he passes with flying colors WITHOUT a cat! it's all in the tuning.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iam7head »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's only so because of the turbo(which is a big **** restriction point)
test pipe will raspy the hell out of NA accord.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree completely.
</TD></TR></TABLE>ok because you've replied civilly and without name calling I'll respond to this.
judging by that idealistic response, you must also belive that all race cars should run catalytic converters?
I'm willing to put money that a top fuel dragster puts out more emissions in one pass down the track than my car does in a full week of heavy driving.
how about the mack trucks? they should have cats too then? deisel freighters that burn THOUSANDS of gallons of crude, barely refined deisel fuel in one day - should they have cats too?
my car is the *least* of this world's problems and I think you should put your statement into perspective a little bit. there are much larger polluters out there than our little hondas with or without cats.
I personally know a guy who is running over 400 horsepower in his civic and is OBD1 so he has to have his car run on the emissions dyno every 2 years. guess what: he passes with flying colors WITHOUT a cat! it's all in the tuning.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iam7head »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's only so because of the turbo(which is a big **** restriction point)
test pipe will raspy the hell out of NA accord.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree completely.
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Re: (notoriousB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by notoriousB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok because you've replied civilly and without name calling I'll respond to this.
judging by that idealistic response, you must also belive that all race cars should run catalytic converters?
I'm willing to put money that a top fuel dragster puts out more emissions in one pass down the track than my car does in a full week of heavy driving.
how about the mack trucks? they should have cats too then? deisel freighters that burn THOUSANDS of gallons of crude, barely refined deisel fuel in one day - should they have cats too?
my car is the *least* of this world's problems and I think you should put your statement into perspective a little bit. there are much larger polluters out there than our little hondas with or without cats.
I personally know a guy who is running over 400 horsepower in his civic and is OBD1 so he has to have his car run on the emissions dyno every 2 years. guess what: he passes with flying colors WITHOUT a cat! it's all in the tuning.
I agree completely.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, i'm not arguing you.
Automobiles are about a quarter of all air pollution in the US. and of that....maybe 5% is still coming from cars. The rest of that pollution is coming from earth movers, buses, you name it. The other 75% is from smokestacks and such. Big companies made smokestacks 'cleaner' by simply making them taller...which makes the smoke disperse over a larger area. Same amount of pollution, just spread out.
If I had my way, I'd totally move past what the government is doing. I'd impose stiff restrictions on diesel vehicles such as the trucks you mention. I'd also do away with city transit and replace it with more light rail (as a matter of fact...car and oil companies were the businesses that bought most rail systems in big cities and ran them into the ground...and buses replaced them...makes you wonder).
I also know modern catalytic converters arent really that useful. Sure they get rid of unburned fuel and a lot of the major offenders...but if you looked at their byproducts or the emissions that come through that it wasnt designed to handle, it would be quite surprising.
Automobiles don't pollute as much as other vehicles, but they do pollute. In building my project car, and dealing with my Accord (which had a tranny replaced, exactly what YeuEmMaiMai talks about, and it IS a major problem btw), I've always made sure to retain a catalytic converter.
I'm sure that top fuel dragsters pollute, but we're talking about different ideas. A top fuel dragster uses different fuel (different burn and different concerns for pollution) PLUS it only makes that one run. I doubt top fuel dragsters are run once a day. The frequency is an important factor. It may pollute more than you in a week, but you're also driving your car more than it does. An average car puts out a large amount (in the tons) of pollutants a year (which is counted as 12,000 miles).
I'm not saying that we'll save the world by keeping our cars emissions friendly. But if we set a standard and all abide by it, it would be that much better. And I hope the govt. kicks diesel and SUV ***!
Modified by accordselux at 6:51 PM 2/17/2006
judging by that idealistic response, you must also belive that all race cars should run catalytic converters?
I'm willing to put money that a top fuel dragster puts out more emissions in one pass down the track than my car does in a full week of heavy driving.
how about the mack trucks? they should have cats too then? deisel freighters that burn THOUSANDS of gallons of crude, barely refined deisel fuel in one day - should they have cats too?
my car is the *least* of this world's problems and I think you should put your statement into perspective a little bit. there are much larger polluters out there than our little hondas with or without cats.
I personally know a guy who is running over 400 horsepower in his civic and is OBD1 so he has to have his car run on the emissions dyno every 2 years. guess what: he passes with flying colors WITHOUT a cat! it's all in the tuning.
I agree completely.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually, i'm not arguing you.
Automobiles are about a quarter of all air pollution in the US. and of that....maybe 5% is still coming from cars. The rest of that pollution is coming from earth movers, buses, you name it. The other 75% is from smokestacks and such. Big companies made smokestacks 'cleaner' by simply making them taller...which makes the smoke disperse over a larger area. Same amount of pollution, just spread out.
If I had my way, I'd totally move past what the government is doing. I'd impose stiff restrictions on diesel vehicles such as the trucks you mention. I'd also do away with city transit and replace it with more light rail (as a matter of fact...car and oil companies were the businesses that bought most rail systems in big cities and ran them into the ground...and buses replaced them...makes you wonder).
I also know modern catalytic converters arent really that useful. Sure they get rid of unburned fuel and a lot of the major offenders...but if you looked at their byproducts or the emissions that come through that it wasnt designed to handle, it would be quite surprising.
Automobiles don't pollute as much as other vehicles, but they do pollute. In building my project car, and dealing with my Accord (which had a tranny replaced, exactly what YeuEmMaiMai talks about, and it IS a major problem btw), I've always made sure to retain a catalytic converter.
I'm sure that top fuel dragsters pollute, but we're talking about different ideas. A top fuel dragster uses different fuel (different burn and different concerns for pollution) PLUS it only makes that one run. I doubt top fuel dragsters are run once a day. The frequency is an important factor. It may pollute more than you in a week, but you're also driving your car more than it does. An average car puts out a large amount (in the tons) of pollutants a year (which is counted as 12,000 miles).
I'm not saying that we'll save the world by keeping our cars emissions friendly. But if we set a standard and all abide by it, it would be that much better. And I hope the govt. kicks diesel and SUV ***!
Modified by accordselux at 6:51 PM 2/17/2006
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Re: (notoriousB)
thanks to dunbasses like you the laws are getting to a point where no one will be able to do anything to their cars. Take a look at california retard and tell me what you see.
Thanks for being stupid and ruining it for the rest of us.
Thanks for being stupid and ruining it for the rest of us.
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Re: (YeuEmMaiMai)
Ya know... This thread is just getting ridiculous.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks to dunbasses like you the laws are getting to a point where no one will be able to do anything to their cars. Take a look at california retard and tell me what you see.
Thanks for being stupid and ruining it for the rest of us.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wrong reason and wrong person to blame for all of it.
Long before anyone ever thought about even making an aftermarket part for a Honda, country boys with F-150s and Chevy 1500s have been removing their cats and running straight pipes off the headers. Before them, American muscle hot rodders. Since the day they started adding catalytic converters to cars, people have been removing them.
And frankly, if you want to blame the current vehicle laws in California on something, blame it on all the street racing. As street racing becomes ever more popular, the laws get stricter in an attempt to prevent it. THAT is what is "ruining" it for you.
But I could be wrong. It could be that one guy on the other side of the nation is ruining it for you in California.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks to dunbasses like you the laws are getting to a point where no one will be able to do anything to their cars. Take a look at california retard and tell me what you see.
Thanks for being stupid and ruining it for the rest of us.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wrong reason and wrong person to blame for all of it.
Long before anyone ever thought about even making an aftermarket part for a Honda, country boys with F-150s and Chevy 1500s have been removing their cats and running straight pipes off the headers. Before them, American muscle hot rodders. Since the day they started adding catalytic converters to cars, people have been removing them.
And frankly, if you want to blame the current vehicle laws in California on something, blame it on all the street racing. As street racing becomes ever more popular, the laws get stricter in an attempt to prevent it. THAT is what is "ruining" it for you.
But I could be wrong. It could be that one guy on the other side of the nation is ruining it for you in California.
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Re: (philadd)
Damn. I am sorry I asked this question. I probably took a few months off of your lives by making this thread. I just wanted to fool around with it and see what its like. But screw that idea because I have an 02 sensor in my cat and don't want to screw things up.
Modified by concept11253 at 8:13 PM 2/17/2006
Modified by concept11253 at 8:13 PM 2/17/2006
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From: New England, USA
Re: (concept11253)
Don't feel bad, there really should be a warning posted about certain subjects. In the end tho, if you listen carefully between the "F&*^k You's" and the statements about one's manhood, there really are a lot of good ideas (and information) to be had here.
A simple observation, a math excersise and then I'll shut up. You can draw you're own conclusions.
Calculate the area of a circle 2.5" in diameter and compare it to the area of an oval 5" x 11" (some math involved here) (A hint: = area of a 5" circle added to the area of a square 5"x 6")
Calculate the area of a circle 2.5" in diameter (Test-pipe) = 4.90 sq inch area
Calculate the area of an oval 5" x 11" (Converter) = 34.90 sq inch area
..if you divide this value in half (compensate for flow area lost for Converter Honeycomb Element) you still end up with 17.45 sq in.
The approximate square inch value of a 4.6" diameter test pipe.
Your converter is sufficient for your needs
P
edited for clarity and a minor Brain fart
Modified by P_Adams at 12:59 PM 2/18/2006
A simple observation, a math excersise and then I'll shut up. You can draw you're own conclusions.
Calculate the area of a circle 2.5" in diameter and compare it to the area of an oval 5" x 11" (some math involved here) (A hint: = area of a 5" circle added to the area of a square 5"x 6")
Calculate the area of a circle 2.5" in diameter (Test-pipe) = 4.90 sq inch area
Calculate the area of an oval 5" x 11" (Converter) = 34.90 sq inch area
..if you divide this value in half (compensate for flow area lost for Converter Honeycomb Element) you still end up with 17.45 sq in.
The approximate square inch value of a 4.6" diameter test pipe.
Your converter is sufficient for your needs
P
edited for clarity and a minor Brain fart
Modified by P_Adams at 12:59 PM 2/18/2006
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From: Alexandria, ky, usa
Re: (concept11253)
LMFAO....Now I know why everone on Homemadeturbo.com makes fun of this place.....And just for the record I have a 90 accord with no cat *L* and a gsxr muffler....It sounds like ***
I put it on as a joke a few years ago.And I just never took it off.
And P adams rocks
I put it on as a joke a few years ago.And I just never took it off.
And P adams rocks
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From: Bouncing off of the city bus in Saigon
Re: (philadd)
anyone who removes emmissions equipment is causing the problem. P has it right you don't need to remove any emmissions equipment in order to get great performance out of your car. AS more and more people do ILLEGAL STUFF like street racing and emmissions removial, the laws will get worse......
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Re: (Dmc1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dmc1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LMFAO....Now I know why everone on Homemadeturbo.com makes fun of this place.....And just for the record I have a 90 accord with no cat *L* and a gsxr muffler....It sounds like ***
I put it on as a joke a few years ago.And I just never took it off.
And P adams rocks</TD></TR></TABLE>
Homemadeturbo.com is a joke...
And yes, I can almost guarantee that 99% of the people removing emissions equipment does NOT need it removed. The 1% are drag racers.
I'm not a hippie but I know we only have one chance to get it right and one planet and we fucked it up enough already.
I put it on as a joke a few years ago.And I just never took it off.
And P adams rocks</TD></TR></TABLE>
Homemadeturbo.com is a joke...
And yes, I can almost guarantee that 99% of the people removing emissions equipment does NOT need it removed. The 1% are drag racers.
I'm not a hippie but I know we only have one chance to get it right and one planet and we fucked it up enough already.
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Re: (accordselux)
About three billion years ago the earths atmosphere had way to much methane to support the modern life forms as we now them.Until eventually some microbes evolved that produced oxygen and over 1 billion years they changed the air to the more oxygen rich atmosphere we all know and love today.
Now with just a bunch of little microbes the earth was changed over a billion years but they were just little tiny organisms.
Today we belch out carbon monoxide out of just about everything we use.so I think we are changing things faster then we realize.
I think were going to kill ourselves of and be a failed species just like crowmagnon and some of the others that died out.
The next intelligent bunch to come along are gonna just shake their heads at how stupid we were.
But I'm a hypocrite because a have a car with no cat
Now with just a bunch of little microbes the earth was changed over a billion years but they were just little tiny organisms.
Today we belch out carbon monoxide out of just about everything we use.so I think we are changing things faster then we realize.
I think were going to kill ourselves of and be a failed species just like crowmagnon and some of the others that died out.
The next intelligent bunch to come along are gonna just shake their heads at how stupid we were.
But I'm a hypocrite because a have a car with no cat
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Re: (Dmc1)
I think we'll be extinct somehow. If I knew how it wouldnt matter, we're probably going to be dead anyway...but no reason to kill ourselves earlier.
About 30 years ago there was still asbestos in car brake pads...that will kill you for sure...
Knock yourselves out with motorsports, but do it with a conscience.
I'm building a summer fun car and the rest of the time i'll be driving a Fit. I'd rather see the gov't. put a stranglehold on the diesel polluters that are more dangerous but until that happens (and it's in the works), i'll try and be environmentally friendly ourselves...
This is the reason why more people get asthma...airborne pollutants that irritate because they're not supposed to be there...
About 30 years ago there was still asbestos in car brake pads...that will kill you for sure...
Knock yourselves out with motorsports, but do it with a conscience.
I'm building a summer fun car and the rest of the time i'll be driving a Fit. I'd rather see the gov't. put a stranglehold on the diesel polluters that are more dangerous but until that happens (and it's in the works), i'll try and be environmentally friendly ourselves...
This is the reason why more people get asthma...airborne pollutants that irritate because they're not supposed to be there...
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Re: (accordselux)
They should put a strangehold on cow's excreting.
It is a known enviromental fact (hey school is good for something) that cow manure releases more greenhouse gases than all of the cars around the world combined in one year. And there was something else too, car's emissions are the least of our problems. Has anyone watched the news lately? Iran is building nukes and doesn't give a damn what anyone else saids. Israel is going to take the Gaza Strip back with their new hardliner prime minister (totally for that, im a jew).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accordselux »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">About 30 years ago there was still asbestos in car brake pads...that will kill you for sure...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
2000 years ago we had lead water piping
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philadd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And frankly, if you want to blame the current vehicle laws in California on something, blame it on all the street racing. As street racing becomes ever more popular, the laws get stricter in an attempt to prevent it. THAT is what is "ruining" it for you.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is getting annoying when I have to sit at a stoplight and have an F-150 rev at me. I mean cmon, my car is barely modded, why would you do that?
It is a known enviromental fact (hey school is good for something) that cow manure releases more greenhouse gases than all of the cars around the world combined in one year. And there was something else too, car's emissions are the least of our problems. Has anyone watched the news lately? Iran is building nukes and doesn't give a damn what anyone else saids. Israel is going to take the Gaza Strip back with their new hardliner prime minister (totally for that, im a jew).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accordselux »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">About 30 years ago there was still asbestos in car brake pads...that will kill you for sure...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
2000 years ago we had lead water piping
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philadd »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And frankly, if you want to blame the current vehicle laws in California on something, blame it on all the street racing. As street racing becomes ever more popular, the laws get stricter in an attempt to prevent it. THAT is what is "ruining" it for you.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is getting annoying when I have to sit at a stoplight and have an F-150 rev at me. I mean cmon, my car is barely modded, why would you do that?