GoneImport

My wife’s Accord is acting up and I’m learning hard toward buying her a new one given the frustration and anxiety she’s experiencing over it. Nothing worse than an anxious wife!

• Nothing exceptional in the weather – 75 degrees
• Car hadn’t been driven since the night before
• Turn the key the systems passed their checks, the gauges and accessories cut out and the starter energized and spun but didn’t engage the flywheel
• 20-30 attempts with everything normal but a spinning starter that won’t kiss the flywheel Failed solenoid??
• Removed the starter, applied voltage to it and the motor spun – no surprise there
• Energized the solenoid and the gear kicked out promptly but didn’t return – so the drawback’s not right.
• Ordered a new starter and installed it only to experience the exact same symptoms
• Starter gear on the old starter looked good
• Flywheel in good shape
• Pulled the new starter and it passed my simple test regimen as performed on the old one Reinstalled the old starter and the car started right up
• It continued to do so for about a month, then last Saturday it did the same thing

• After 50-60 attempts (free spinning the starter) I called AAA
• Tow truck driver tried the general troubleshooting stuff I’d already performed (even after I’d explained to him painful detail all I’d done to it) and after 6-7 attempts it decided to start
• Dropped it off with the dealer (I’ve never done that before – I do all my own work post warranty) who couldn’t repeat the problem so they said they can’t do anything about it

It has started reliably since.

If you’ve read this far I certainly appreciate your attention. I need help. This car has been great - bought it new and it’s never failed us before. But my wife hates driving as it is (especially now that we live in DC) and to have a car that she can’t trust is just too much. We don’t need a new car, but I’ll buy one to put her anxiety to rest.

Thanks in advance.

accord99power

did u check for fuel n spark?

GoneImport

Fuel and spark is good. Problem is the starter doesn't engage the flywheel. The engine never turns over when the problem exists. When the starter engages the flywheel it starts up right away.

I've heard a lot of folks having starter failures out of the box. Anyone want to put odds on a new (reman) starter failing right out of the box in the same manner mine did after 71K? Maybe I can find a used starter at the junk yard...

Ross 2.0

It's possible you got a reman that has the same problem yours had to begin with. What brand of reman is it?.
If you are SURE the ring gear is firmly attached to the flywheel, and the power wires are good, it's got to be the starter itself. Buy a reman from the dealer this time. You will have a much better chance of getting a good one.
If the car started fine when it works ok that tells me the load wire is ok and that the ignition input is also good.

GoneImport

You'd think remanufacturing companies would test their products before shipping them out the door. I don't recall who the remanufacturer was, I already sent it back. They shipped it to me for free and I returned it to Advance Auto for free.

I'm going to test the S terminal wire and see if there are any shorts in it. If it didn't receive the proper voltage might it fail to put the gear forward? In other words, could a slight current drop signal the starter to turn without energizing the solonoid to kick the gear out to engage the flywheel?

I may be reaching, but when I connect the S terminal to a test wire and touch that puppy to the positive terminal it kicks out and turns the motor right away. Probably did that 20 times yesterday.

Duane_in_Japan

To keep the MR$. happy go ahead and spend the big $$$ and get a NEW OEM starter from Honda. There are different types of starters, can you post a pic. If it is a reduction gear then the solenoid contacts could be the problem, is the solenoid round or more of a dog house shape, two walls on the sides and a peak roof.

GoneImport

I don't think I can post images. The solenoid is internal to the starter.

I tested the S terminal wire and it provides a solid battery current to the starter - ~12.4 VDC. I also tested the starter cut out relay (just one more thing in the circuit so I figured I'd test it too).

I guess I'm waiting for it to fail again...

GoneImport

I still haven't found a solution, but the problem hasn't occured again.

dustin_bb6

check your flywheel/flexplate. i have a feeling you have missing teeth on the sun gear

pgrooms

I have just registered because I was looking for help with the exact issue with my 98 EX 5 speed that you have described with your 99.

I am stumped as I have gone through many of the same checks you described and took the starter assembly to my local Autozone for a test. Surprise!!!! It passed 5 times with no issue but when reinstalled just spins and does not engage. Flywheel teeth look just fine.

If anyone has any other suggestions as I'm about to give my $$$ away to Honda to resolve the issue.

I'll repost if that happens with their findings.

pgrooms

GoneImport,

Just to close off.

Duane _in_Japan asked about the solenoid being round or shaped like a dog house. My 4 cylinder, 5 speed has the dog house shaped solenoid enclosure which means that solenoid is internal to the Starter and could not be replaced without replacing the entire starter unit ($400 parts & labor).

Any way your Reman might work fine for along time but I went with OEM just so I had some confidence that the fix worked and I have some fall back on labor and part if I run into issues later.

Good Luck

siresword

hi,

yesterday, in albany, NY it was raining like crazy. i'm pretty sure i didn't take my car through a puddle, but while I was on my way home, my car lost power. I was going on an almost flat incline and doing about 15 in 2nd, when it seemed like I stalled my car. I started it up again, and about 20 seconds later, it just died on me. Ever since then my car cannot start. My friend told me it was because the spark plugs were wet, but I just tried the car and it won't start, so I'm hoping that its just that the spark plugs are still wet. I think the problem is either the starter or just the fact that my spark plugs are still wet. I have a charged battery and otherwise the car is doing pretty well.

is it easy to replace a starter motor by yourself? and are they cheap ?
thanks

Duane_in_Japan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siresword &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hi,

yesterday, in albany, NY it was raining like crazy. i'm pretty sure i didn't take my car through a puddle, but while I was on my way home, my car lost power. I was going on an almost flat incline and doing about 15 in 2nd, when it seemed like I stalled my car. I started it up again, and about 20 seconds later, it just died on me. Ever since then my car cannot start. My friend told me it was because the spark plugs were wet, but I just tried the car and it won't start, so I'm hoping that its just that the spark plugs are still wet. I think the problem is either the starter or just the fact that my spark plugs are still wet. I have a charged battery and otherwise the car is doing pretty well.

is it easy to replace a starter motor by yourself? and are they cheap ?
thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

Inside your distributor is more likely to be wet but you still need to verify fuel pressure and spark along with compression and a properly timed timing belt, then comes actual fuel injection and a strong enough spark to fire inside the cylinder, an adjustable spark tester in needed here, buy one. Power to distributor, black/yellow wire with key on 12 volts.

siresword

okay sounds good, i guess i'll look into testing equipment.
um i saw on another thread something about a switch for the clutch (i have a 5speed) that would prevent it from engaging, do you think that could also be the problem ?

Duane_in_Japan

The clutch switch will prevent the starter from engaging at all but will not prevent spark.

JimBlake

The clutch switch will prevent the starter from running at all. If the starter motor runs but the pinion gear will not engage the flywheel, that can't be the clutch switch.

It's true that the clutch switch will not prevent spark, but it's hard to test for spark without a way to spin the engine.

Duane_in_Japan

You can force spark with key on, no crank, with a scratch test at the coil, the coil will fire a weak spark to prove that it has power and the ability to cause spark but it is not a sure fire test, pardon the pun.

siresword

so if with just they key, when i turn it I should (hear?) that the spark plugs are working ?

Duane_in_Japan

No, its a special procedure, its not even in the book that I know of to test the coil. When you turn the key on and the CEL comes on for 2 ~ 3 seconds, you should hear a click under the dash and 2 ~ 3 seconds later it should click again at the same time the CEL works, the fuel pump should come on for the very same time frame too and you MIGHT be able to hear that humming noise.

No spark with key on, I was just saying, with a special procedure, the coil can be tested if it will produce a spark, if your car starter was working and you have no spark by checking the normal way and the scratch test gave a spark, then the ignitor is more than likely bad.

With your history of two starters acting the same way I am forced to say that your replacement starter is a bad rebuild BUT lets assume that its an starter signal wire to the solenoid, this happens sometimes on Toyotas and the fix is to put one of those old school Ford external starter solenoids on the car, rewire a couple of things to include the Ford solenoid and no more problems. I recommend you get at least an OEM rebuild or new starter, the wife will thank you.

You could also get a hand starter (remote starter) switch from Sears, hook it up and start your car from under the hood for awhile and see if this direct wiring fixes your problem but I think it would take a month to see if you have a re-occurance of the starter not engaging. Just recently on the forums, one gut stated that he had a loose wire that screwed into the steering column that was loose, he tightened it and all his starting problems went away, I still do not know what that wire was for.

NeKe1point0

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GoneImport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You'd think remanufacturing companies would test their products before shipping them out the door. I don't recall who the remanufacturer was, I already sent it back. They shipped it to me for free and I returned it to Advance Auto for free.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i had the same issue with mine and turns out my starter was purchased at advanced auto too !!!
but this is where the story gets good...
So while im in there thinking it would be an easy swap they tell me they have to test it to warranty it out and the guy working there as usual was f-n retarded but im getting my starter tested by their machine, anthr customer comes over and tells me he had the same prob that im having and he went through 7 reman'd starters !!!!! thats right 7 !!!!! till he got one that worked correctly. He explained your and my problem to the T... Well Advanced Auto F-d me b/c i purchased it when they were Discount Auto Parts and all my warranties "supposedly" didnt carry over when they switched names. Same parts in the store, but now they dont offer all the warrnties. After hearing that and them saying they wouldnt honor my warranty. Ive come to realize Genuine Honda Parts are worth the extra $$$ !!! started right up and no problems so far...

Moral of story = F-N Advanced Auto Parts SUCKS

Duane_in_Japan

Thanks for posting your fix and thanks for a vote for OEM starters, I dont buy cheap cheese and I dont buy cheap peanut butter either, I go all out for my three meals a day.

NeKe1point0, how did you come to get that handle? My other handle is 2POINTautO. Its my second (#2) forum handle.

siresword

thanks for replies.

i just took my car in to my school, and im having the mechanics look at it. they told me i'd need new wires, a distributor cap, rotor, and spark plugs. i haven't changed the plugs on my car yet, but they might have been a little old (i've had the car for about 6 months )

do you think changing the plugs and the distributor cap would fix a car that doesnt want to start?

JimBlake

I think we need to separate the different problems in this thread.

GoneImport's starter pinion gear won't engage the flywheel, so it won't spin the engine. Pgrooms seems to be talking about the same thing.

When I replied to siresword, I was confused about who's who... so my advice was about the wrong problem.

Siresword, this is for you.
If your starter can spin the engine, you have a different problem. FIRST you need to verify your spark & your fuel. If you need help with that, start a new thread.

GoneImport

Gentlemen:

I purchased a new starter from Honda and installed it and the problem hasn't returned.

It's really too bad remanufactured products have become so unreliable.

Thanks for your help, guys.

JimBlake

Thanks for posting the fix. I guess I would have expected a reman starter to be ok, at least for a while. You kind of expect they would have done some checks before putting it in a box...