Would this catch can setup making any sense?
02-16-2016, 05:12 PM
#1
Would this catch can setup making any sense?
I was thinking about going with the traditional setup but I've heard your rings are better off without an open atmosphere setup so I was thinking of tapping into the exhaust somewhere right after the downpipe.
I could use either one of these boxes, tap the front of the valve covers and then use the bottom outlet to route the gasses and crap into the exhaust. So 2 top inlets from the valve cover and 1 bottom outlet to the exhaust. Thoughts?
I could use either one of these boxes, tap the front of the valve covers and then use the bottom outlet to route the gasses and crap into the exhaust. So 2 top inlets from the valve cover and 1 bottom outlet to the exhaust. Thoughts?
02-16-2016, 05:23 PM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Drain your catch can into your exhaust?? That would get a little smokey to say the leaast. When using the exhaust slash cut thats just to provide some sort of suction similar to a vaccum line. In that scenario the slash cut would go to one of the top ports not the drainback
If you do use a drain back it goes back into the block not the exhaust sytem
If you do use a drain back it goes back into the block not the exhaust sytem
02-16-2016, 05:37 PM
#3
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
anyone try this for a crankcase evac set up? - Page 2 - LS1TECH
Who is using exhaust to pull crankcase vacuum? - Page 2 - PerformanceTrucks.net Forums
http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300z...xperiment.html
http://www.theturboforums.com/thread...y-good-results
I would love to hear any advice or opinions. I'm way out in left field for me.
I found this for a check valve, no idea if it would work or not. http://www.efaucets.com/detail.asp?P...15C=1821276057 There are a lot of one way check valves. I assume any would work? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-11191
Who is using exhaust to pull crankcase vacuum? - Page 2 - PerformanceTrucks.net Forums
http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300z...xperiment.html
http://www.theturboforums.com/thread...y-good-results
I would love to hear any advice or opinions. I'm way out in left field for me.
I found this for a check valve, no idea if it would work or not. http://www.efaucets.com/detail.asp?P...15C=1821276057 There are a lot of one way check valves. I assume any would work? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-11191
Last edited by Stopsign32v; 02-16-2016 at 05:59 PM.
02-16-2016, 06:11 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Yea looks like a good Idea however I never tried this. It seems most people here run only a vented system without using a vacuum at all, which is great for drag cars but on a street car it would be beneficial to have some sort of vacuum assist like you are looking at.
I found an old thread where tonythetiger suggested using a vacuum assist via intake manifold using a supra PCV valve which is what I am going to try, let me know if your interested I can get you more info on this
I found an old thread where tonythetiger suggested using a vacuum assist via intake manifold using a supra PCV valve which is what I am going to try, let me know if your interested I can get you more info on this
02-16-2016, 06:29 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
wait your using a LS arnet you?
cant seem to find the thread at the moment. Anyway in case other people are interested or have feed back it involves using the stock black box (only found on vtec blocks). which is basically a baffled catch can with a drainback, and using
Purolator PCVValve- part# PV1009 I got mine off ebay for $3.50
I mean you could do the same thing you would just need to get a catch can and hook it up to vaccum with the pcv valve.
cant seem to find the thread at the moment. Anyway in case other people are interested or have feed back it involves using the stock black box (only found on vtec blocks). which is basically a baffled catch can with a drainback, and using
Purolator PCVValve- part# PV1009 I got mine off ebay for $3.50
I mean you could do the same thing you would just need to get a catch can and hook it up to vaccum with the pcv valve.
02-16-2016, 09:57 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
For a street car, use the valve cover for vent so that you can keep the factory black box in the back of the block. I kept my black oil separator box in the back of the block along with a Toyota PCV valve (it stays 100% shut under boost) so that the PCV system still works when the car is cruising or under vacuum. Under boost, the valve cover vents do all the venting.
The slash tube setup from ENDYN was meant to direct all PCV pressure flow out from their catchcan setup which consists of venting from the two block plugs in the back and a drainback. The slashtube puts pressure into the valvecover instead, providing fresh air/directing the pressure through the catchcan instead, therefore, keeping your engine from combusting those oily fumes. By no means you would use s slash tube if you aren't using a catchcan setup in the back of the block.
For most valve cover vent setups, you can vent these lines in the atmosphere, or to keep it legal, you can have a catch can (sealed) inline of the vent lines and then feed it back into the turbo inlet/intake tube. This is beneficial too because it creates a minor vacuum if you plumb the vent lines back into the turbo intake, but most racers don't like oily fumes getting past their turbo, FMIC, and into the engine.
For most valve cover vent setups, you can vent these lines in the atmosphere, or to keep it legal, you can have a catch can (sealed) inline of the vent lines and then feed it back into the turbo inlet/intake tube. This is beneficial too because it creates a minor vacuum if you plumb the vent lines back into the turbo intake, but most racers don't like oily fumes getting past their turbo, FMIC, and into the engine.
https://honda-tech.com/forced-induct...ation-2458025/
Hopefully he will see this and give his updated opinion this was awhile back, he definitely knows alot more about this then I would
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02-17-2016, 02:48 AM
#8
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
I can think a plus to the exhaust scavenger setup. I think even in boost it would show vacuum.
More informative links.
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...up-horsepower/
More informative links.
http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tec...up-horsepower/
Last edited by Stopsign32v; 02-17-2016 at 03:12 AM.
02-17-2016, 05:21 AM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
If you like the smell of burning off oil vapor constantly go for it. Unless you have issues with crankcase pressure, I dont see why you'd consider it.
02-17-2016, 11:25 AM
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
I think actually that is an old-school approach...on mine I ran it that way for a while, then went back to just running a filter on the valve cover because even after checking a couple times, hardly any oil was actually making it to the can, so it seemed kinda pointless.
02-17-2016, 11:25 AM
#14
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Then by all means, please have your experience with it. I've had those setup on some other cars I've had around and it was awful. And I don't do the vented valve cover setups either (they aren't necessary from my experience). I keep a pretty simple drain back system using a S80 Volvo boost check valve to stop all the vapors and mess at startup. I can't even take credit for the idea, it was my friend and engine builder who perfected it with a B&R Catch can system.
The whole catch can thing can really start getting people sensitive, because there are one or two WRONG ways to do it, and about 5 ways of doing it in a way people live with and actually work.. This example is one of those, "Great on paper, but not as applied" versions of catch cans.
The whole catch can thing can really start getting people sensitive, because there are one or two WRONG ways to do it, and about 5 ways of doing it in a way people live with and actually work.. This example is one of those, "Great on paper, but not as applied" versions of catch cans.
02-17-2016, 12:01 PM
#15
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Then by all means, please have your experience with it. I've had those setup on some other cars I've had around and it was awful. And I don't do the vented valve cover setups either (they aren't necessary from my experience). I keep a pretty simple drain back system using a S80 Volvo boost check valve to stop all the vapors and mess at startup. I can't even take credit for the idea, it was my friend and engine builder who perfected it with a B&R Catch can system.
The whole catch can thing can really start getting people sensitive, because there are one or two WRONG ways to do it, and about 5 ways of doing it in a way people live with and actually work.. This example is one of those, "Great on paper, but not as applied" versions of catch cans.
The whole catch can thing can really start getting people sensitive, because there are one or two WRONG ways to do it, and about 5 ways of doing it in a way people live with and actually work.. This example is one of those, "Great on paper, but not as applied" versions of catch cans.
02-17-2016, 01:07 PM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Its not closed loop going into the exhaust. The oil vapor would burn and every time you roll to a light you'd get a nice whiff. I have a buddy who went that route and now just has a vacuum pump in place of the AC compressor instead. But still overkill for 15 psi and 400whp.
I dont like the idea of that fuel-oil-condensation mix in a drain back, especially with E85. I mean whatever works for you. I don't mind draining the can when I have too.
02-17-2016, 01:25 PM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Doesn't bother me lol. And its really not bad, especially if you keep the cabin recirc on.
Its not closed loop going into the exhaust. The oil vapor would burn and every time you roll to a light you'd get a nice whiff. I have a buddy who went that route and now just has a vacuum pump in place of the AC compressor instead. But still overkill for 15 psi and 400whp.
I dont like the idea of that fuel-oil-condensation mix in a drain back, especially with E85. I mean whatever works for you. I don't mind draining the can when I have too.
Its not closed loop going into the exhaust. The oil vapor would burn and every time you roll to a light you'd get a nice whiff. I have a buddy who went that route and now just has a vacuum pump in place of the AC compressor instead. But still overkill for 15 psi and 400whp.
I dont like the idea of that fuel-oil-condensation mix in a drain back, especially with E85. I mean whatever works for you. I don't mind draining the can when I have too.
02-17-2016, 01:35 PM
#18
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Of course it's not necessary. Read the links, it explains why vacuum is a better option over venting. Really the only thing that is necessary to a motor is lubrication and not too lean of air/fuel mixture.
Vegetables aren't necessary to live but it sure can help you.
Vegetables aren't necessary to live but it sure can help you.
02-17-2016, 02:57 PM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Nah. As long as the venting is sufficient for the boost pressure you are running, it will be fine. Its just one more thing to go above and beyond whats necessary. I wouldnt compare them to veggies lol. All the people and kids I know that lack them in their diet aint doin so hot.
I briefly read that article at work. Seems like all the things they were talking about (big blocks and stuff) are strictly race cars. I dont know if they'd be recommending burning off oil vapor for a street car.
Of course it's not necessary. Read the links, it explains why vacuum is a better option over venting. Really the only thing that is necessary to a motor is lubrication and not too lean of air/fuel mixture.
Vegetables aren't necessary to live but it sure can help you.
Vegetables aren't necessary to live but it sure can help you.
02-17-2016, 03:34 PM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Ok thanks, Boost pressure is yet to be in place but Im thinking 14-20 PSI. I was more worried about retaining the stock PCV system while not in boost, sitting in traffic ETC.
02-17-2016, 05:18 PM
#21
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Doesn't bother me lol. And its really not bad, especially if you keep the cabin recirc on.
Its not closed loop going into the exhaust. The oil vapor would burn and every time you roll to a light you'd get a nice whiff. I have a buddy who went that route and now just has a vacuum pump in place of the AC compressor instead. But still overkill for 15 psi and 400whp.
I dont like the idea of that fuel-oil-condensation mix in a drain back, especially with E85. I mean whatever works for you. I don't mind draining the can when I have too.
Its not closed loop going into the exhaust. The oil vapor would burn and every time you roll to a light you'd get a nice whiff. I have a buddy who went that route and now just has a vacuum pump in place of the AC compressor instead. But still overkill for 15 psi and 400whp.
I dont like the idea of that fuel-oil-condensation mix in a drain back, especially with E85. I mean whatever works for you. I don't mind draining the can when I have too.
Never have had any contamination in my pan.. Even had it analyzed.
02-21-2016, 07:10 AM
#22
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Then by all means, please have your experience with it. I've had those setup on some other cars I've had around and it was awful. And I don't do the vented valve cover setups either (they aren't necessary from my experience). I keep a pretty simple drain back system using a S80 Volvo boost check valve to stop all the vapors and mess at startup. I can't even take credit for the idea, it was my friend and engine builder who perfected it with a B&R Catch can system.
The whole catch can thing can really start getting people sensitive, because there are one or two WRONG ways to do it, and about 5 ways of doing it in a way people live with and actually work.. This example is one of those, "Great on paper, but not as applied" versions of catch cans.
The whole catch can thing can really start getting people sensitive, because there are one or two WRONG ways to do it, and about 5 ways of doing it in a way people live with and actually work.. This example is one of those, "Great on paper, but not as applied" versions of catch cans.
02-21-2016, 10:16 PM
#23
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
Yeah. lemme see what I have here.
I'll come back to edit later in the day.
Canister attached to the firewall.
Below is the PCV "black box" canister adapter fitting that is used as the drain back.
Here is the second one off of the main canister fitting.
This is the S80 Check valve running from the Valve cover fitting routing to the intake manifold
I'll come back to edit later in the day.
Canister attached to the firewall.
Below is the PCV "black box" canister adapter fitting that is used as the drain back.
Here is the second one off of the main canister fitting.
This is the S80 Check valve running from the Valve cover fitting routing to the intake manifold
Last edited by TheShodan; 02-22-2016 at 06:15 PM.
02-22-2016, 05:47 PM
#24
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
02-22-2016, 06:20 PM
#25
Re: Would this catch can setup making any sense?
No. (I've edited the post). The 1st is the drain-back, the other two are the crankcase breathers themselves.
Notice the color orientation of the S80 check valve. It's a one-way valve. It routes down and through the runners, just like the original PCV valve.
Notice the color orientation of the S80 check valve. It's a one-way valve. It routes down and through the runners, just like the original PCV valve.