Hey all,

I did a search on this one, but no one realy seemed to have an intelligent answer to this question besides, "I knew a guy who had bad boost spikes" or "I heard they are unreliable".

No one seemed to mention any solid reasons why they disliked them, or why Tials are better. You can find used Deltagates all over the net for cheap. I just want to know why I shouldnt save the money I would spend on a Tial, get a deltagate, and with the money left over buy a boost controller or something.

Can anyone enlighten me as to why deltagates sux, and tials are better?




[Modified by CustomCockpits, 5:03 AM 6/18/2002]

 

I have one, and it works fine for me. The only quibble I have is that it's a 7lb spring, but the most boost I've ever seen before getting a boost controller was 6lbs, and that was with the boost signal coming from manifold pressure. With the boost signal coming from my compressor housing I'll only see 5lbs of boost on the spring. I don't really care now as long as it holds boost, since I have an EBC. Oh, and it's kinda fugly

 

but if i use the money i save to get a manual boost controller, then the only real difference between a delta and a tial is that the delta is fugly?

 

The question you have to ask is one Tial cheaper than a deltagate and a Tial after the Delta brakes? I have a friend that has broken 2 Deltagates and is on his third. I can't get too technical but both times the acutator rod that bleeds off at the boost threshold just snapped leaving the gate open(not a motor killer, but a pain in the *** for sure). I don't know of too many people with broken Tials.

 

the problem with the delta gate is that its too small (something like a 29mm) that is the reason behind the serious boost creeeping, i had one on my ls/vtec turbo setup it had a 9lds spring. on the top end of 2nd,3rd and 4th gear it would spike to about 14-15psi.


that is why people upgrade to the 35 mm, 40 mm tial, hks or what ever else. they can hold a specified boost level and not creep. unless for some reason you are "over working" the wastegate.


[Modified by turboDA, 10:53 PM 6/17/2002]

 

If that is the case (bad boost spiking/creeping) then why is it that DRAG and RevHard kits all/both come with Deltagates? If it is such a horrible WG, then why do these companies continue to use them?

Its not that I dont believe you people, its just I am trying to understand and make an informed decison about which WG to get

 

I think that the biggest reason why people dont care to much for them is because they are ugly. But they work fine

 

why the hell is he buying another deltagate if this keeps happening to him then? I can believe that if it really broke twice, he is going to buy a third

 

Sure it looks ugly, but so does everything under my hood. I haven't had any problems with my Deltagate and neither did any of my friends.

I used to run 7psi on it. Now I run between 10 and 18psi with no problems at all.

 

I used to have a used delta, sold it and got a tial... I also had a 7-9psi spring and the most boost I ever say was .3 bar or like 3-4psi with the "adjuster" ALL the way in.... tial is prettier and gives the boost at the bar its equipped with... .45 bar. Its also the ONLY chromed out piece under my hood!

 

because all the fast guys are using tial, thats why.

 

I've had multiple (but not consistant) deltagates exhibit boost creep. One wonders if it's not in the quality control dept? Not every one does it, but I've never seen a tial do it.

 

its mostly preference...

just get the deltagate. it will work out for you. its not all that ugly.. it just aint plain and bling bling like the tial.

 

That's the exact same thing that would happen to me with my old deltagate. I always would get a boost spike..The reason they come with the drag kit is because drag saves themselves alot of money using the delta instead of going with the Tial. And looks ain't everything...but it's nice to have something nice to look at under the hood.

 

I've had my deltagate (drag III kit) for the past 2.5 years (nov 1999) and 43000 turbo miles. No major problems to report. I've had a bit of a problem with boost spike, however, since the addition of the profec B (over a year ago) the problem is gone.
I'm still running the same set up (B18B) boosting 7psi and 9 psi with RC 310 cc's.


[Modified by modvp, 12:00 PM 6/18/2002]

 

Has anyone gotten to take a good look at the design of the TIal ? I have not had a chance to disassemble one, I wonder what they did differently from the Deltagate ?
The Deltagate is a simple design, but it works. One reason, I believe, some people see boost creeep is an unreliable boost or vaccum source.

 

I wonder about that myself. I guess he doesn't know better, or had some deal he is getting on them.

 

Just so you know, if the boost isn't reading ~7psi, you can't just tighten the allen bolt all the way in. If it's too tight, it won't work right either. You have to loosen it all the way, and follow the instructions. About every 1/4 turn is 1psi of boost. It works. I've gotten all the 7psi Deltagates to about 8.5psi by doing so.

 

The internal spring is a rising rate damper, so it might 'give' with large increases in exhaust pressure

 

the problems i have seen most common are inconsistant boost. 7 psi one day 4 psi the next ect ect. and boost spikes are very common as well. everything about the tial is just nicer. just remember, one shortcut when turbo'ing a car could lead to a blown motor. is the extra 100 bucks for a tial gate worth the thousands of dollars a motor rebuild could cost you later? not saying that a delta gate will blow your engine, just saying that saving a few dollars here and there could cost you a lot more in the long run. not to mention the nicer parts are going to help your car produce more power, which is the whole purpose of this anyways. just like MBS's, why spend thousands of dollars on a turbo kit, and not spend the couple extra hundred bucks to get a boost controller that is going to make it worth while.

i say save a paycheck or two and get the tial, you wont be dissapointed.

 

so from what I am understanding, the delta's have trouble with consistant boost, unless you have a boost controller? That seems to be what people are saying. I would like to be able to add something to the FAQ site in my sig about this, but I wanna make sure I have it right so I am not mis-informing people.

 

Tom, listen,..........the Deltagates have been known for their creeping problems ever since I built my first Integra back in 1995. I got one because it was cheaper than the Greddy and HKS units then. It gave problems from the day it was installed. I contacted the supplier at the time and was told by the rep (who later became my very good friend) that the deltas were not properly made, he went into detail about the construction and some other short comings they had. This was based on his experiences as a builder and performance tuner.
I was still a little doubtingl and thought that he was encouraging me to purchase one of the more expensive units because he wanted to generate sales. He then offered to take the unit back if I would pay for the flange. I agreed and he took it back and sold me the Greedy unit, boost creep disappeared and I never had another creep problem.
Now I know better, I am using a Tial and I love its performance and its appearance.

 

If they worked so well, would you be able to find used ones "all over the net for cheap"? The reason they are so easy to find is that everybody gets rid of them because they are inconsistent.

Dustin