MalcolmV8

Hey Guys, I'm ready to pull the trigger on water/meth injection on the Honda and looking to see what are good proven methods you guys use to control spray.

My experience has been on Mustangs. I've installed Snow Performance kits on both my 03 Cobra and my buddies GT500. On both cars it used the mass air meter to control spray. Both cars run positive displacement blowers which can shoot to max boost at pretty much any RPMs. So using a simple HOBs switch that activated at a certain amount of boost would not work.

For example if I set the pressure switch to kick in the spray at 10lbs of boost I'd have issues because those cars make 10 lbs of boost regardless if you stomp the gas pedal at 2500 rpms or 6000 rpms but obviously you'd need more water/meth to be sprayed at 6000 rpms than at 2500 rpms.

So to get around that Snow Performance has a progressive rate controller that reads the signal off the MAF sensor and you adjust the amount of spray based on volume of air the engine is consuming. Boost level is not taken into account, just air consumption of the motor and it works fantastic. The more air the engine consumes the more the progressive controller sprays into it. You have two dials to adjust the pressure across the range and of course you jet the system accordingly.

Now I'm wondring how do I achieve the same level of accuracy on the civic? There is no MAF sensor of course monitoring air consumption but only a MAP sensor letting me know manifold vacuum or pressure. Now I'm not sure about other's cars but mine makes full boost (currently 14 lbs) from about 4000 RPMS all the way to 7k and just like the Mustangs it obviously needs less water/meth sprayed at 4k rpms than at 7k rpms.

How do you guys get around this?

I have seen some people will just use a simple HOBs switch to activate at say 14 lbs of boost and adjust the system to spray as much as the car can consume at 4k rpms without bogging and then basically as the RPMs increase it's just keeps spraying the same amount basically leaving some performance on the table as additional water/meth could be sprayed as the RPMs increase but of course you don't spray anything more.

Another thought, with as much flexibility as the S300 has, is there a way to trigger and potentially control water/meth injection from the S300?

Thanks for any feed back and info on how you guys are doing it.

Natural Aspirations

IF someone were so inclined you could use the PWM output that controls boost to drive a FET to drive the methanol pump

MalcolmV8

If I wasn't using the boost controller that'd be pretty good output to use. I do use it for boost though and I use boost by gear & rpm so my meth delivery would be all over the place. Also as air temps change the PW changes quite a bit to compensate for behavior of the boost controller solenoid.

Natural Aspirations

What EMS are you using? There is another PWM option for OBD-1 ECU's that is not used in Neptune (not familiar enough with Hondata) it would just be a matter of talking John into coding it if there is room available. AT lockup

MalcolmV8

I'm using a P28 chipped with S300. I had to send my P28 into Phearable.net so they could solder in the extra electronics so I could get PWM control for the boost controller. I'd be surprised if there was another PWM unused on there.

Natural Aspirations

Then it sounds like this type of DIY would be outside your ability


This kit could be configured to work with a 5v output
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/...-stage-2a.html

MalcolmV8

What would I use as the 0-5 volt source with such a kit?

quick_ls

with my meth kit on kpro, im using the nitrous controls to control when it sprays under certain conditions.

MalcolmV8

So do you just spray a constant water/meth spray regardless of RPM? That might be the route I go too.

Natural Aspirations

You would use a configurable output to increase voltage biased on RPM or Boost IDK if there is an option on hondata to control both.

MalcolmV8

Bump for any other water/meth users to chime in with their setups.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

On my JRSC setup i used dual 2gph nozzles spraying directly into the intake manifold after the blower, using a devils own progressive controller, 50/50 boost juice, and a 3 gallon trunk mount tank. Never really got to put it to good use though, thats why I put it up for sale in the marketplace.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

They are typically based off of the MAP signal and boost pressure, you want to be sufficiently high in the RPM's and boost pressure that the meth/water mix doesn't bog the car. That's typically why you use a progressive controller that ramps the pressure from the tank from low boost to high boost. You also have to compensate with your AFR by pulling raw fuel to make up for the difference in methanol based fuel. So you want to at least have lean protection in place on your ECU in the event that the system should fail to spray.

MalcolmV8

That sounds spot on. Where did you find a progressive controller that looks at both MAP and engine RPM?
I will indeed pull fuel from my tune to compensate for the meth been sprayed.
Correct on lean protection. I actually already have that enabled in the S300 and it proved to work very well in the early days when I was first getting the tune working right.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

sent you a PM