i know if you run rich you can wash all the oil off the cyl. walls which is called "washing the rings". when that happens what exactly happens to the motor? does it hurt all the rings? will that cause low comp.? also why dont you hear it happening to older engines just brand new ones. TIA

 

Mainly it affects the seating of the rings which is why it is more critical on a new motor. I'm sure it's not very good for older motors though.

 

The fuel washes the film of oil on the cylinder walls.Without this film the rings wear out rapidly.And trust me this has been a problem since the first gas engine.This also allows the engine oil to be diluted by the gas and eliminates its lubricating properties.You can guess what the bearings think of this.
Glenn

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The fuel washes the film of oil on the cylinder walls.Without this film the rings wear out rapidly.And trust me this has been a problem since the first gas engine.This also allows the engine oil to be diluted by the gas and eliminates its lubricating properties.You can guess what the bearings think of this.
Glenn</TD></TR></TABLE>

but what exactly will this cause? low comp?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicflnum1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

but what exactly will this cause? low comp?</TD></TR></TABLE>

low compression, oil consumption, blow-bye, oil contamination, cylinder damage, premature piston ring wear........maybe a few more things also depending on how severe the richness is......

 

what is the air fuel range that the rings get washed?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

low compression, oil consumption, blow-bye, oil contamination, cylinder damage, premature piston ring wear........maybe a few more things also depending on how severe the richness is......

</TD></TR></TABLE>

can u wash the rings and still have perfect comp? also some people start a engine on a dyno and tune right away (11.5-12.0 for boost engines)...why dont they wash the rings?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicflnum1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

can u wash the rings and still have perfect comp? also some people start a engine on a dyno and tune right away (11.5-12.0 for boost engines)...why dont they wash the rings?</TD></TR></TABLE>

11.5-12:1 A/F on a boosted engine is not rich enough to cause the cylinder wall washing I'm speaking of.

on my N/A setup i strapped it to the dyno and ran below 10:1 A/F and i had been running like that for over a year or so (ya I'm a dumbass)......needless to say the engine in now re-sleeved and has cost me twice the headache (and money)

and yes its possible to have good compression (and even decent leak down numbers) because the cylinders dont get as oval at the top of like they do in the middle. when you run rich enough to wash that thin film of oil off the cylinder walls not only do the rings get worn the cylinder wall begin to loose their shapes right in the center of the cylinders.

as showen in the pic you can see the thrust side on the intake side of the cylinder and you can see the crosshatch is totally worn off.....well it was just as bad if not worse on the exhaust side. and for the crack.....well that was detonation once i finally leaned it out enough......hehe.



notice all the built-up carbon on the piston domes......that oil.....and this engine ran a perfect 215psi per cylinder on a compression test.


so.....if you boosted......i wouldn't worry to much about running 11.5:1 or higher....if you dip below that......hmmm.......i wouldn't think that would be very safe.

 

so that black spot is like a hot spot from where u washed the walls?

 

its not really a hot spot.......that the spot where there is so much fuel that the oil gets "washed" off the cylinder wall then there is metal to metal contact from the rings to the cylinder walls....it removed material from the rings as well from the cylinder walls at the same time......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its not really a hot spot.......that the spot where there is so much fuel that the oil gets "washed" off the cylinder wall then there is metal to metal contact from the rings to the cylinder walls....it removed material from the rings as well from the cylinder walls at the same time...... </TD></TR></TABLE>

can u name everything u were experiencing when that happened? pelase

 

good info

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

low compression, oil consumption, blow-bye, oil contamination, cylinder damage, premature piston ring wear
</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

so when u wash the rings do u ALWAYS have all of those signs?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicflnum1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so when u wash the rings do u ALWAYS have all of those signs?</TD></TR></TABLE>

or just some...

 

Trent, if you washed the oil off the walls and had extreme metal to metal contact, you'll notice when you pull the head and see the damage on the cyl walls. Pull the head off like you were going to and have a look for yourself.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicflnum1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

or just some...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Usually the first sign is that your oil will wreak like fuel and be thin...spun bearings are also a common side effect of fuel washing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96-EJ6 B18C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Usually the first sign is that your oil will wreak like fuel and be thin...spun bearings are also a common side effect of fuel washing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah i just read today that it can cause wear to ur bearings...didnt know that.

 

sounds like a **** poor tune, next time around id get it tuned properly and then break it in for a couple hundred miles

 

first signs would be more than usual oil consumption, blue smoke under hard acceleration and specs of carbon buildup on the tail pipe/back bumper.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2001 ITR218 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sounds like a **** poor tune, next time around id get it tuned properly and then break it in for a couple hundred miles
</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah what was honda thinking when they programed the STOCK p28.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicflnum1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yeah what was honda thinking when they programed the STOCK p28.....</TD></TR></TABLE>


so you're saying you washed the rings with stock injectors and a virgin p28?

Ive never heard that, in fact, i bet its impossible. unless you screwed up your fuel system, or running 100 psi base fuel pressure or something.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2001 ITR218 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


so you're saying you washed the rings with stock injectors and a virgin p28?

Ive never heard that, in fact, i bet its impossible. unless you screwed up your fuel system, or running 100 psi base fuel pressure or something. </TD></TR></TABLE>

well for one where in the post did i say i washed my rings? i was simply asking a question. and for two i am on a stock p28 and so far 3 shops said its my head giving me issues so i dont think its the rings....i just wanted to ask what some signs were.