hcampsoldier

I just got thru reading a post and read something very disturbing ... The post basically read that vtec is irrelevant when boosting... How can this be true... I mean if that was the case then ls motors would be Extinct ... Also, if that statement is true then dyno charts between ls and gsr motors would be a lot closer almost equal..

We can clearly see that vtec without question is the reason why we see crazy HP numbers on the dyno vs non- vtec motors...


My question Is vtec irrelevant when boosting ???


Modified by hcampsoldier at 5:30 PM 8/14/2004

toolowsol

of course not, vtec is what it is, a different camshaft profile, that lets more air in, more air=more power, vtec 1.8l motors make more power than nonvtec 1.8l motors all other things held constant. You can however just get better camshafts, and there are some vtec killer cams that have the same profile for low and high rpm, but I've always found that concept rather dumb.

kabaroo

no its not

SoEvoL

with vtec killer cams ur car stays in similar vtec through the whole rpm band, which is good for turbos. instead of a power drop then ur car engaging in vtec.

HXMan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMCrx89 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">with vtec killer cams ur car stays in similar vtec through the whole rpm band, which is good for turbos. instead of a power drop then ur car engaging in vtec.</TD></TR></TABLE>

WTF are you talking about?

VTEC killer cams by Toda are made for NA road racing applications. They eliminate vtec...get that, NO VTEC. SO you are NEVER in vtec.

If you have a good tuner there is no power drop when vt3c engages.

Vtec killer cams would be horrible with street driven turbo honda, and I'm sure they would be horrible for a track car as well..

Moron.

Bailhatch

this thread is sweet. All the tech I can add is, that when Vt3c kicks in on my d16 you better watch out...V6 mustags

Jockobo

for racing only vtec killers arent dumb...they weight less hence more power...

sporkcrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hcampsoldier &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
We can clearly see that vtec without question is the reason why we see crazy HP numbers on the dyno vs non- vtec motors...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You need to learn wtf vtec is

GS-Rdriven

i think this is right:

A Vtec 1.8L will beat a non-Vtec 1.8L

and...

A Tuned Turbo 1.8L Vtec will beat a non-Vtec Turbo 1.8L. (same boost)

like if you have a vtec controller you can control when vtec kicks in and get the most out of the turbo right?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

the only problem is, most v-tec controllers like the vafc ( if i understand correctly) force the hi-rpm cam to activate while still runnning on the low cam maps, because the map swap over point is still burned in the ecu

Yellb16crxsi

I had always heard, that even putting the vtec aside, that a b16 head will flow much better the an ls head is this true?

NightRiderS2K

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Yellb16crxsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had always heard, that even putting the vtec aside, that a b16 head will flow much better the an ls head is this true?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, because b16 heads are similar in flow to Integra Type-R heads.

95stangkillah

I think what the post you read is really referring to is the fact that Turbocharching has a great way of equalizing things: displacement and vtec.

Cranking up the boost will equalize power vs a vtec motor. Now I think the vtec motor still gets the advantage at teh same setup and boost levels tho.

Now I wonder if there is a point where vtec actually becomes a liability instead of an advantage? If you do away with the oem ecu all together, you would have to figure out two maps basically for below vtec adn vtec. Doesn't the change in cam profile mess up a tune? Just curious, but I will stick with the vtec motor for my car

donkiman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hcampsoldier &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just got thru reading a post and read something very disturbing ... The post basically read that vtec is irrelevant when boosting... How can this be true... I mean if that was the case then ls motors would be Extinct ... Also, if that statement is true then dyno charts between ls and gsr motors would be a lot closer almost equal..

We can clearly see that vtec without question is the reason why we see crazy HP numbers on the dyno vs non- vtec motors...


My question Is vtec irrelevant when boosting ???


Modified by hcampsoldier at 5:30 PM 8/14/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

That was my post that you read. My point was that when you are running a stock vtec motor 120-150ish hp vtec feels like a big boost even though its only really like an extra 15 ponies. when running turbo, vtec is so infintesimal compared to the gains you see from the turbo. my turbo kicks in around 4000rpm and the extra 150hp i see with the turbo completely overpowers any feeling you could ever get from the almighty "vtec". someone correct me if my logic is wrong. vtec is cool and all but if i were to decide between turboing an ls or swaping in a gsr motor vtec can suck its own dick. but as someone else stated, I'll stick with my gsr vtec turbo . Not trying to prove anything here, it was just something i stated in this post.....https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=958555

SoEvoL

i am sorry for the faulty explanation, but u dont need to call me a moron, anyways

the primary and secondary lobes are the same, and with the toda vtec killers they are lighter because there made from hollow blanks,. the main reason they remove vtec for there race motors is because the fluxuation in the oil pressure. toda claims they make power 5500k+. ive seen some s2000s that make more power in the lower rpm band with these cams.

95stangkillah

you're right about the power difference with turbo between a LS and a GSR, but another thing that would keep me with a GSR is the sheer pleasure of a 8200 rpm redline and better gearing. you can overcome these with a LS but it requires additional time, money, and effort.

VTEC+ Turbo = One good thing

Curtis2kul

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this thread is sweet. All the tech I can add is, that when Vt3c kicks in on my d16 you better watch out...V6 mustags</TD></TR></TABLE> Haha, you dont even need vtec to beat v6 mustangs! They should be outlawed

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Yellb16crxsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had always heard, that even putting the vtec aside, that a b16 head will flow much better the an ls head is this true?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, VTEC heads blow the LS'es out of the water in terms of flow, both stock and unported. This is one reason why VTEC motors make more power, and the much larger cams don't hurt either. Stock LS cams are down on duration by about 40 degrees compared to the VTEC cams, pair that up with much less valve lift and your motor makes less power and torque does not hold on as long. If you fully ported the LS head and put in some Crower 404's or a cam similar to the 404's, something with duration and lift that are on-par with the bigger stock VTEC cams, then you'll make just as much if not more power than a VTEC car with stock head/cams.

showtymers619

FACT:

its the over lap you dont want in vtec when boosting

SOHC_MShue

but the ls head will probably never flow as well as a ported vtec head.

Buzzbomb

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HXMan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

WTF are you talking about?

VTEC killer cams by Toda are made for NA road racing applications. They eliminate vtec...get that, NO VTEC. SO you are NEVER in vtec.

If you have a good tuner there is no power drop when vt3c engages.

Vtec killer cams would be horrible with street driven turbo honda, and I'm sure they would be horrible for a track car as well..

Moron.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right, the killer cams have no 3rd lobe. This is for an application where the engine will spend all its time in the upper half of the rpm band so there is no need for different profiles. Definatly a race only application.

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShowTymers619 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FACT:

its the over lap you dont want in vtec when boosting</TD></TR></TABLE>

FACT: A good turbo cam will still have overlap. Talking to the guys at Fast Times and Bennett (who build a LOT of turbo motors) as well as Cammotion, and they all told me for a higher RPM turbo motor you need to add duration, and with duration will come some overlap. A lot of it is taken out running a turbo cam on a 114 or 115 LSA vs. a naturally aspirated 108 or 110 LSA, but you still get some overlap. The benefits of a higher duration cam even on a street honda outweigh the downfalls due to a marginal amount of overlap.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but the ls head will probably never flow as well as a ported vtec head.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's true, but with the cost of VTEC heads going higher and higher, as well as the added expense of a new ECU, and other parts to do an LS/VTEC conversion it is usually more economical to get your LS head ported, and throw in a bigger set of cams.

showtymers619

like i said overlap is what you dont want in a turbo car, you can go by what ever you heard and what not and what you read from some magazine, its a plain fact, yo uwill produce more power with less over lap

mildly.interesting

I wouldn't trade my DPR ported LS head w/ Web cams for a ******* metric ton of Vtec heads.

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShowTymers619 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">like i said overlap is what you dont want in a turbo car, you can go by what ever you heard and what not and what you read from some magazine, its a plain fact, yo uwill produce more power with less over lap </TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, go build a real turbo engine, then say that you can't have any overlap. Ever built any kind of a motor with a lot more options than hondas in respect to intakes, heads, transmissions, etc? With a honda you're limited to the 4 stock VTEC cams, or some people go for the gusto and run some crower turbo cams. I helped build the motor and maintain the car for a friend who ran NMRA drag radial for a little while. Figure around 1300-1400 horsepower from a single turbo and 360 cubic inches. The cam was custom ground from Bennett, who build turbo motors for a lot of the fast Ford guys. Duration was well over 300 degrees advertised and nearing 260 degrees @ .050, and the lift was over .700" at the valve. Only reason the car wasn't competitive was because it made too much horsepower for the tires. Leave off the brake and it would light them up, leave without boost off of the footbrake and it would load the tires up nicely and as soon as boost hit it would be like a skating rink. It made a **** load of power, and we were shifting the motor at 8500. All with around 270 degrees duration @ .050" of lift. But wait, that can't be! A GSR is only running about 230 degrees of duration @ .050, and <u>everybody</u> knows that VTEC cams have too much duration and overlap for turbos, right? Right? Considering that the extent of your turbo knowledge seems to be your attempt to turbo your del sol, you arn't really in a position to tell me that I'm going by what I heard or read in a magazine, that you know what plain fact is.