turbo without tune
#26
Honda-Tech Member
Re: turbo without tune
3. You obviously want it to be reliable and you only want 30-40hp. Why dont you just put some high compression pistons in it, deck the head .010", build the head and tune it?? You wouldnt spend a ton of money and could easily see that power gain if you did it right and got a good tune. For a reliable turbo kit and reliable tune to go with it, youd spend just as much as a mild engine build.
Sounds about right, depending on what exactly is done to, and in, the head.
#27
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Re: turbo without tune
We used to use those 12:1 FMU Drag Kit setups over 13 years ago. It was risky as hell then much less now. Those were dangerous days. A lot of quick cars, and a lot of blown ones too.
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#33
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Re: turbo without tune
I guess that all depends on your overall philosophy. If you believe in the philosophy of do it right the first time then a turbo kit is far more expensive; no eBay kits, only quality pieces. A simple all motor build like what was previously suggested would be fairly cheap. Especially considering the OP only wants to yield 20-30HP. There are a lot of factors that go into making suggestions. But to support your statement, yes, a cheap eBay kit or used kit would do the trick but I still think going all motor would be cheaper. A cheap eBay kit would cost maybe $1k, and that's a complete guess. Picking up a set of used high compression pistons and having some head work done would be cheap.
#35
Honda-Tech Member
Re: turbo without tune
Why don't you just be patient, and save up until you have enough to use the proper engine management? Things have gone down in price alot these days. Look at Crome, it's free.
Just because you've heard stories about people who have done it with success, doesn't mean that YOU will have success with it. I'm not saying you won't, but if you choose to go that route, you already know the risks, so why risk it? If you blow your motor, you will have to spend even MORE money fixing it. Not worth it in my book. Been there, done that.
Do it right the first time. But hey, it's your car, do you, homie.
Last edited by Silva Bullit DC4; 12-15-2010 at 07:53 PM.
#37
Honda-Tech Member
Re: turbo without tune
Everybody shoulda asked him... Whats his setup? Cuz he's a noob and I wouldnt be suprised if "every bolt on" was intake, headers and exhaust...
If you do have every bolt on imaginable then you prolly could pick up most of that 30hp you looking for with a good tune...
Sounds like you just need to do some reading... The easy answer for a guy like you is just to get a gsr...
If you do have every bolt on imaginable then you prolly could pick up most of that 30hp you looking for with a good tune...
Sounds like you just need to do some reading... The easy answer for a guy like you is just to get a gsr...
#38
Re: turbo without tune
well thanks for all the info... after a night of thinking im still not sure, but leaning against it now. just too much negativity in this post for me to go through with it.
id like to do crome (because its free) but it doesnt support obd0, so i think my next step will be converting to odb1, which isnt too pricy, and then go from there. possibly start looking for some pieces here and there to start building a setup. either way itll prob take a while to get where i wanna be, but at least ill have a decent plan rather than winging it and hopoing for the best with no tune.
id like to do crome (because its free) but it doesnt support obd0, so i think my next step will be converting to odb1, which isnt too pricy, and then go from there. possibly start looking for some pieces here and there to start building a setup. either way itll prob take a while to get where i wanna be, but at least ill have a decent plan rather than winging it and hopoing for the best with no tune.
#41
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Re: turbo without tune
Why not gather parts on your budget until you put something adequate together? Rushing into gaining 30 hp is going to cost you a lot more in the long run. Fish out some deals on the parts and before you know it....bawoooosh without the boom!
#42
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#43
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Re: turbo without tune
i have a d16y8 completly stock besides a basic fmu with a greedy t25 turbo set up shes gone 25000 with 10lbs at 225whp but then droped boost down to 6lbs and havent done anything to her and shes gona the last 10000mi with no problems and shes auto runs like a champ
#45
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Re: turbo without tune
well thats not comforting at all lol i wanna build her some more but im stuck with one major problem AUTO trans..... what can a stock trans safely run lol what would you recomend the next thing to go into her be??
#46
Honda-Tech Member
Re: turbo without tune
Right now your lucky your auto hasn't blown up or shown signs of weakness.
Your type of story isn't unheard of... just rare and unwise, haha.
There is a turbo Civic around here that has run a "tune" off a VAFC for years (though it is a 5 speed) and STILL runs. It was beat on quite a lot as well.
Of course, someone decided to mess with the VAFC, so now it runs like crap off just an FMU but it's lasted a bit longer than yours even.
That's the only story of one lasting that I personally know of though.
#47
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Re: turbo without tune
Two ways I can think of to run a 30hp turbo with no tune are...
1 put in bigger injectors. Be smart here. If your ecu supports 130 horsepower on 240cc injectors, put in 340cc injectors. it will idle like crap until it warms up, and then closed loop will correct for the eye burningly rich mixture.
2 use a different obd0 ecu, or compatible junkyard chip/ecu that runs 40 percent richer since you want 30 percent more power.
You must also do steps 3-8. 9 is optional but highly recommended.
3 don't forget to hook up a datalogging cable and run BRE or turboedit you need to datalog to make sure you don't lean it out. honda motors may only be 100 dollars at the pick and pull but datalogging is 35 dollars and a laptop away. really you don't need a laptop, but a sine wave inverter with a desktop pc would be the ultimate in hard parking.
4 pull timing manually.
5 check valve between map sensor and manifold. make sure it faces the correct direction.
6 run an aftercooler.
7 reference the FPR vac line from immediately after the compressor.
8 if it runs too rich in boost move the FPR reference to the stock manifold location.
9 Get a sticker made up that says I hack the unhackable.
If I forgot anything somebody please speak up.. I don't want blown noob motors on my conscience.
Lol at everyone who says it can't be done safely. There is nothing that can be accomplished with money than cannot be accomplished with hard work.
1 put in bigger injectors. Be smart here. If your ecu supports 130 horsepower on 240cc injectors, put in 340cc injectors. it will idle like crap until it warms up, and then closed loop will correct for the eye burningly rich mixture.
2 use a different obd0 ecu, or compatible junkyard chip/ecu that runs 40 percent richer since you want 30 percent more power.
You must also do steps 3-8. 9 is optional but highly recommended.
3 don't forget to hook up a datalogging cable and run BRE or turboedit you need to datalog to make sure you don't lean it out. honda motors may only be 100 dollars at the pick and pull but datalogging is 35 dollars and a laptop away. really you don't need a laptop, but a sine wave inverter with a desktop pc would be the ultimate in hard parking.
4 pull timing manually.
5 check valve between map sensor and manifold. make sure it faces the correct direction.
6 run an aftercooler.
7 reference the FPR vac line from immediately after the compressor.
8 if it runs too rich in boost move the FPR reference to the stock manifold location.
9 Get a sticker made up that says I hack the unhackable.
If I forgot anything somebody please speak up.. I don't want blown noob motors on my conscience.
Lol at everyone who says it can't be done safely. There is nothing that can be accomplished with money than cannot be accomplished with hard work.
#49
Man U FTW
Re: turbo without tune
What isnt' going to last? Well, since you're adding more air and no more fuel, the engine runs leaner (and therefore hotter) which will eventually melt a hole through a piston or break the ringlands. I would bet a tune is cheaper than fixing this mess...
No tune = no engine