dude, no offense but this is just mis-information.

you dont need a boost controller, the wastegate is going to control the boost at spring pressure. i was suggesting above to use the nipple on the turbo to the side port, top port open. its bad for the wastegate diaphragm to use vacuum, consistency doesnt really seem to be effected either way.

1psi is too high if the car isnt tuned. and psi really doesnt matter, its all whp.

 

You must be a certified genius! I never knew that a wastegate controls boost pressure at spring pressure! That is so fascinating!

I suggested that the guy let the tuner set the boost pressure using a boost controller. I didn't actually tell him to use a boost controller, because that goes without saying. I don't need to tell someone to use a boost controller to set the boost level. A tuner should not have to be told to do so. That is why I asked him what he was planning to use to control the boost pressure.

In your opinion



That's exactly what I was trying to say.


No offense, but that is just miniformation. PSI is important because if his motor is getting more air than his injectors can compensate, then it won't matter how much HP he is making when he fries his piston rings.


Look dude, your best bet is to tell us what fuel setup your're running, and whether you have access to a reputable tuner. If not, I wouldn't ever let that car see boost. IN MY OPINION

 

what is "miniformation" psi doesnt mean mean ****. different turbos make different power at differnet psi

 

You know exactly what it is. If you want to attack me, attack my logic, not my typos. It makes you look foolish when you can't find anything better to attack me about.

That is not entirely true. I have posted about this subject before.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...1055905&page=3

PSI is extremely important. I will say it again since you can't seem to make a logical argument as to why "psi doesn't mean ****." When you say something, you should back it up with some facts. I made a statement, and I backed it up with facts. The bottom line is that if he is gong to introduce more air molecules into the combustion chamber, and his current setup is incapable of delivering the correct amount of fuel, then the only factor in that situation that could ruin his motor is the fact that there is too much air being introduced into the combustion chamber. How can you simply neglect boost pressure and say that HP is the only important factor. HP is literally created by the air, fuel, and spark in the combustion chamber; therefore, HP is an effect of the amount of air in the combustion chamber. The cause of HP, as stated above, is air, fuel, and spark. An effect cannot precede a cause; therefore, you are making a fallacious argument.

Again, I am all about having an intellectual discussion about this, but please provide some evidence instead of an arbitrary, unsupported statement.

 

DO NOT FIGHT GUYS!!!! I'M NOT A BEATUFIL GIRL!!!!!
WE ARE HERE ONLY TO SPEAK ABOUT TURBOS AND SO ON!!!!!
I'm not so expert i'm at first experience in hondas turbo engine toghether with the tuner.
He have experience in subaru mitsu engines for rally cars, and now we are approaching to drag racing.
I HAVE high volume fuel rail and rc550 cc injectors already installed witth upgraded stock fpr, but i'm going to replace it with mallory 4305m 30-100psi fpr and walbro 255lph intank fuel pump. Ecu is the stock one with hondata s300 module, but like i said the car is an experiment, she will be transformed into drag one, where think to install a motek or autronic with pressure port on ecu.
The wastegate spring i think is 10.9 or 12.9 psi but i'm not sure and i don't remember correctly, and bov is this one:

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...ff930247196fe5

I belive that stechiometric gauge will tell us the thruth, i have one of it on car; once i'll go to tune up the car the boost pressure will be affected by this ratio, if i'll have too lean mix i'll must decrease boost psi ,to prevent engine failure.
I would like to boost the baby around 8-10 max no more.

On the drag one i would like to rebuilt engine.

This is what i want to do:

Supertech head upgrade , valves springs retainers.... all race parts.
Eagle rods, and i would like the crank too...( already have)
je pisrons part# http://store.jepistons.com/176450.aspx compr ratrio 9,0:1 ( i think they no longer have ) (going to buy...)
skunk2 pro intake and pro1 camshaft (going to buy)
custom headgasket
a1000 pump with mallory or aeromotive fpr ( already have)

what do u think? Suggestions

 

sorry guys i was getting petty, if you want to break out the chemistry of psi then you will probably win. but simply saying "you can run 7psi safely" isnt a complete statement. maybe i just misunderstood what you were trying to say about tuning.

and again boost controllers are not required, pick the spring you want and roll with it. if you need to increase pressure then add a boost controller.

i still suggest using the nipple on the turbo for side port of the wastegate. it is not my opinion, its instructions from Tial themselves not to put vacuum to the diaphragm.

 

petro what do u think of my idea of drag setup?

 

your current fuel setup should be good for about 300-350whp. the 550cc injectors will max out before anything else. so if you want more power you will need bigger injectors. maybe 750 or 1000cc. the hondata s300 will work great and you can even add-on the necessary components to control boost.

everything sounds just fine with your setup. set the boost pressure steady. if you ae going lean then you must add fuel. i would leave it to an experienced tuner to adjust the afr and timing.

also the wastegate pressure is the LOWEST you can boost. so if you have a 12.9psi spring then you can only boost 12.9 or higher. you will need to get a smaller spring if you only want 8psi

 

It is a HUUUGE (and far too common on HT) mistake to judge what's safe on a stock motor by psi. The psi of a small turbo is much less CFM (volume or the air) than the same psi on a larger turbo. Picture a small hose pressurized to 10psi, and then a large hose pressurized to 10 psi. The larger is the same pressure, but a higher volume of air. More air=more power is possible. Long story short, judge by whp, not by psi. The psi is irrelevant to what is safe unless you're looking at the turbo specifically. And honestly, that should be done by your tuner once you've established what a safe whp is. It doesn't matter what psi you've got (speaking generally), because things start breaking at a specific whp, not a specific psi.

 

If its the type that uses the stock o2 sensor, don't waste your time. It can only RELIABLY tell you if its more rich or more lean than ~14.6 to ~14.8:1. A turbo Honda will hate you for running leaner than 13:1, and more than 10:1 can ruin your rings. Also don't think that forged parts are stronger than Superman. Any bit of detonation from too much timing or not enough fuel will ruin even the best rods, pistons, and bearings. Factory Turbo cars like Mitsu's and Subaru's come with timing maps already tuned for boost, albeit for a smaller turbo. Honda's don't, and its a bad idea to think you can tune it just as easy.

Other problems: the stock MAP sensor will not allow you to read any boost above 11psi - another difference from Mitsu/Subies. You can run more boost, but it will only give enough fuel for 11psi.

 

Thx for replies . I forgot to mention my 3 bar map sensor installed.....
I hadn't understand the problem with the 02 sensor, and what do u intend with whp? it's an acronym.
This setup is only to test a little bit the car and i will not do more than 500km on street with this setup. After i will start a drag project with the parts i've listed in the last post.
i also have adj camgears for timing the car. So the tuner have more than 20 year experince in racing cars, so i think/hope he isn't a stupid....
With this experiment i only would like to test the potential of the engine because i never had a honda before.
Anyway any suggestion is welcome here or by PM. Tomorrow morning i will restart building and hope to test it by the day....

 

Dpetro is right on with the WHP figure he gave you. 550 is a good choice for your setup. I run stock B16 internals, and I am making about 250 WHP at 7 psi. Everything has been working just fine for me so far. I'm only telling you about mine so that you have an idea about what might be "safe" for you even though every motor is different, but it is not uncommon to safely put down 250 - 350 WHP on stock B16s. Just use these figures as a guide. Yes, WHP should be your guiding factor in deciding how much boost your motor can handle. Boost only helps you get to the WHP level you are going for. Your goal should not be to see how much pressure you can force into your motor. Focus more on WHP. That doesn't mean crank up the boost until you get to 350 WHP, that means that you need to TUNE your car to that level (provided that is your goal).

WHP stands for Wheel Horsepower.

HiProfile was trying to advise you to install a wideband sensor and gauge so your tuner can actually see what is really going on with your AFR (air/fuel ratio).

Bakertime,

Neither CFM (cubic feet per minute), nor PSI (pounds per square inch) are units of volume (of air) as you stated. CFM is a rate of flow, i.e. the volume of air that can be flowed over one minute of time, and PSI is a unit of pressure. You cannot compare CFM and PSI because though they are related, they are not the same thing. 7 PSI is 7 PSI no matter which turbo you have. The difference comes from the efficiency of the turbo. There is an extensive discussion on this topic here:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...1055905&page=3

therefore, it is not a misconception. The analogy you used would apply if the charge piping was routed directly to the combustion chamber; however, this is not possible for obvious reasons. CFM is only relevant to the efficiency of the turbo at a given RPM because the turbine fins do not have to spin as fast on a larger turbo to generate the same manifold pressure. The analogy you used doesn't apply because whether you have a large turbo, or small turbo, that same pressurized air is going to flow through the same intake manifold (same diameter, therefore, same volume of air).

In summary: Bigger turbo = higher efficiency at higher RPM due to lower intake air temp which results in higher air density which means more air molecules per given volume of air available to mix with the fuel molecules)

Just take a look at the link I provided.

Overall Pleiadi, I would say that you are on the right track. Only thing you have left is to install that wideband sensor, and have your tuner dial in that S300

Everyone has been giving you some pretty good info. Let us know how it all goes.

Good luck

 

Thanks a lot guys , honorated yo be on this forum!!!

Going to wor now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!1

 

Hi problem solved!!!
After 1 hour of idling turbo started spinning at idle. All problem fixed, but i had'n time to test car on street.
All good except a strange sound that seems a "tac" near intake manifold when u release gas, i mean if u give a deep gas on pedal u will ear this near 2000rpm in decreasing phase.
That sound seems a loose bolt on the intake but never bad happened at the engine when idling.

Some ideas?

 

That Vac distribution block is HUGE!

 

Glad to hear your tubo is spinning at idle finally.

I think I know what that "tac" noise is that you're talking about, and I think it's your injectors. Mine does it too. It is like a constant tac tac tac tac tac, like a low clicking noise, but really fast?

Mine didn't do it until I put the bigger 680cc injectors in. Of course, I could be wrong...

 

this is a funny topic i worked on a car where i put a used turbo on it and it didnt spin at idle, after we tuned it a few days later it was fine spinging freely at idle... for its worth my car with the s372 spins during cranking before the motor even starts

 

Aasarsak,

it's not the injectors sound it's a bigger TAC that u hear only one time , near intake manifold, after a big blip on throttle boby valve....

 

Srmofo why is it too huge mine? Tech problem? i don't think this will be a problem, air have same presure/vacuum on different volumes.

 

The size of your vacuum manifold shouldn't matter.

As far as your tac sound, is there a way for you to post a video or a sound clip?

 

Man i will try do do it with my mobile tomorrow when i hope to test car on street...

 

I didnt say it was a problem, I dont see why it would be. I was just commenting on the fact that thing is HUGE!

 

srmofo,

Your sig has me LMAO

 

Ok i hadn't understand it's a vac manifold done from industrial parts for pneumatic automation.

 

Workssssssssssssssssssssssssssss, done first run today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I need only a little bit of tun ing on car fro the rest it flies!!!!!1
Found the strange noise. It's the vac manifold that urts on the bar!!!!!