soloteg

First off I am not a drag racer so before everyone says too small, just don't and read the rest of my post. I have a 93 eg civic with a b16a3 in awesome shape with a LSD tranny. I am thinking about doing a small turbo setup since it's legal in my autocross class and a few more ponies would certainly help. I am thinking cheap too. A quality log manifold with a 14b or t25, cheap ebay front mount or even a dsm or supra sidemount. Now her in lies my question. I am not going to use an afc hack or fmu because that's too ghetto and theres no control of timing. Would a basemap be sufficient in such a small low boost setup? I really don't want much more that 200whp/tq because beyond that, it won't put it down or be fun to drive. I want quick spool/ response time. If a basemap isn't enough, I'm not a newb to tuning as I've had my hand in a few big turbo/stroker DSM's using tuners, what is the absolute cheapest way to tune or have the car tuned near chicago. This car is a toy and daily driver for the summer as I will probably get a truck or jeep in the winter. I am not against any suggestions and hope get some knowledge here, but I don't want a bunch of high dollar and giant turbos that spool at 6k suggestions. Thanks guys.

met

I was getting 180hp at the wheels with my stock b18c, I dont think it would be worth all the trouble for such a low hp goal. I dont autocross so im not sure whats best for that, but a friend on mine does and uses a gt28r. I have a gt35 on mine I think its cool that the turbo spools and vtec kicks in about the same time. On a side not I was surprised that mine starts to make boost at about 3k, it does fully spool ata about 5.5k. With the gsr tranny lag is never a problem I can always down shift and be high enough in the revs to make full boost. Mine puts out a little over 400 but im sure with the right tires you could easly hook up with 300hp and be fun to drive So for short for 200whp build your engine.

darkvader0

If by basetune you mean just tell someone what you have and have them send you an estimated basemap file, I say "not quite."

1) Auto-x is sustaining your car at high rpm/load for longer than typical street driving; you'll want closer to ideal A/F and MBT than a basemap can give you.

2) A small turbo setup is not as common as a typical mid to large-frame turbo that most people use. So knowledge is not extensive for creating a basemap.

92redhatch

Get ectune/hondata/Neptune. Either one is cheap and has great options. Just find a tuner in your area. T shouldn't cost you more then 200 bux for a street tune and for a tuner to burn a chip on ectune or Neptune. That's the cheapest way to tune your car and still be reliable. A b16 with a tiny turbo at low boost is very easy to tune.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You don't want to hear about too small, but the B16 engine doesn't like too small, ebcause it creates too much heat due to the efficiency of the engine. A slightly larger turbocharger is needed to stay in an effective range of power (yes, even 200whp and such). Even the 14b just plain sucks. bottom line. It may be "easy to tune", but very little benefit for the type of racing you're doing. A Journal bearing GT28 (yes, it exists) or T3 Super 60 with at a minimum Supra Sidemount only. (not even a DSM sidemount is efficient enough to work)

soloteg

What exactly is "the effective range of power" to you? I want full spool early to make up for the lack of power and torque a b16 has on the low rpms. I guess what I want is a turbo that behaves similar to a supercharger. Have you ever autocrossed? low end torque/hp makes it easy to dodge some cones man, most courses don't get beyond 60mph or out of second gear. I don't want to hit full spool at 5500 rpm, I am thinking more like 2500-3000 rpm.

soloteg

Hook me up with a link to see exactly what I need typically all the datalogging and tuning options I have seen were closer to 400$ I wish I was closer to a known tuner too.

92redhatch

A ectune or Neptune authorized tuner can do a street tune and burn a chip for you usually that tuner wouldnt charge more then like $200 for a street tune. Go to hrtuning.com and look for a Neptune tuner in your area or go to ectune.com and look for a tuner in your area. It's that simple.

92redhatch

If you want to tune on your own all the hardware plus license would cost about $400 plus a wideband another $200. If you don't have $600 contact an authorized tuner and have them street tune it for you.

soloteg

Thank man I appreciate it, What do u think of using a small turbo like I am saying?

92redhatch

I think that turbo is to small. Shodan is the turbo expert he'll have better advice for you on turbos then me.

2k.civic.si

disco potatoe

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I have auto-X'd, and I have found no matter what you do, unless there was a supercharger, there was no replacement for displacement for a lot of the short courses that were made up. Not may favorite motorsport, but more interesting with a better matched larger displaced engine over the attempts many have tried with the super small used turbo that you plan.

fcluddington

how much money do you want to spend on the whole project then others might be able to help you dial in what your trying to do if it's even possible on your budget.

EFPhilly

Supercharger or laughing gas I would say. And if you want torque make it LSV or poor mans R. Like you said b16 aren't known for torque, they are known for top end and horsepower. I would replace the bottom end with something that will allow for more torque...because that is what you need. Put your money saved into suspension...

Bseriescivic5

Sounds like hes really on a budget here, so swaping out bottom ends is out of the question. Heres what I would do.:

T3 super 60, can find these all day long on craigslist/ etc, they are common from the saab, thunderbird, mustang turbo cars, and can be had in decent condition for 200 bucks., Maybe even look into a holset hx30, hy35, you will see full boost by 4k with these.

Log manifold, will work fine for you, and get it tuned on crome/ neptune, and that will save you some money from going with s300 (600bucks for this)

Please get it tuned though, even low boost setups untuned or running a basemap will not give you the reliability you need ESPECIALLY for auto-x where the engine is going to be stressed.

Your looking at i would guess around 1200-1500 for all this, with the supporting mods to go with (injectors, intercooler, piping, dp, oil lines, tuning, etc)

soloteg

Thanks for the advice guys. I am not on a huge budget it's just kind of the nature and plan of this car. I got it for dirt from someone who gave up on the wiring and have sorted the car out and dericed it. Honestly if i could get it turboed pretty cheap, with what I have into it, it would almost fit in the GRM 2500 challenge. As for suspension it is someonewhat dialed in on a cheap but effective setup and I've been autocrossing for 10 years. I have also thought of getting a b20 block for an all motor setup.

EFPhilly

^
I would say B20 with spray just like before. You will love the torque! Just spray on the auto-x track when you need the extra power since you already have the suspension. I would say forget the turbo...thats just mee though

LightningTeg

Lol spray on an Autox. To bad its not allowed...

hatrickstu

soooo you are running in SM? good luck...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The problem is that if you turbocharger it as it sits, even with your plans of attempting to use that with such an ineffective range (meaning about 3000-6000rpms) they are going to put you in a class where you couldn't even compete. You'd get blown outta the water simply because of the fact that its forced inducted. So what winds up happening is you'll have not only a difficult time trying to keep the car on the course properly with such a small turbo, but you'll be in a class where cars with over 3-4 times the power and torque (with suspension to match) will leave you in the dust because you'll be in the wrong class.

Try a good NA setup if you go auto-x. you'd be surprised what the b16 can do in such a light chassis at a sanctioned event.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

with a turbo that small, you're actually suffocating the motor.

That small of a turbine side, combined with the b16s love of revs and its head flow, you're causing increased exhaust backpressure (read: reversion and contaminated cylinder charge) increased EGT's (hard on motor and turbo alike) and driving on the highway will result in a huge drop is gas mileage, as with a turbo that small its almost impossible to stay out of positive pressure even on the smallest of inclines.

raene

Just to add to the "too small" crowd... you're also going to run into a situation where you're getting full boost at part throttle, which is going to make the car HARDER to drive. Exactly the opposite of what you want at autocross.

I'll take a laggier, predictable turbo any day over a teeny turbo that causes eruptions of wheelspin at irregular intervals, like trying to roll on throttle after hitting a wide corner apex.

$1200 will buy you an LSVTEC bottom end. Much better mod for autocross IMO.

phinexgold96

i just wrote off my 99 ls vtec turbo so i pulled the motor and dropped it into a 96 i got it tuned just befor i crashed does anyone no if you have to get it tuned again after you unhook the ecu?

LightningTeg

Thats really not how it works. Seeing as I had a tiny turbo on my integra at one point and have driven stock turbo cars that spool instantly at Autocrosses. Smaller turbos are more predictable if anything