23hatchturbo

first off i didnt make the power i was looking for at 30psi either i made just under 600whp 430trq My torque curve isnt looking the best and at the track its not pulling as hard up top.
Heres my setup

84.5m gsr golden eagle sleves 9.1 wiesco eagles
b16a head ported ferrara valvetrain R cams victor x manifold 76m throttle body
turbo setup. Fullrace topmount percision turbo t4 udivided .68ar not exactly sure on inducer size i was told its a t4t76. I have all 3in intercooler pipeing ebay fmic 4in downpipe the cars tunned on neptune car runs good i went to the track sunday ran 10.7 135 i only got a few runs at the track but the 10.7 felt like a good one like the car didnt have much more in it. And i need to go alot faster lol

Heres what people are telling me. The head is causeing my tq to drop, my cams?? I dobt that. Im thinking the turbo is close to being maxed out??? Im going to pull the turbo off and mesure the inducer. Im just not happy with it right now the car went faster last year almost stock motor Any sugestions is apreciated! Im thinking of getting the borg 366?? I want 9s!

http://www.speedfactoryracing.net/graphs.php heres a link to my dyno sheet its the third one down under frank.


Modified by 23hatchturbo at 11:15 AM 10/21/2008

tony413

are you sure you didnt mean to say t4/T67 ?

also you would be happy with a S366 but you are already making the power for 9's now. you need to focus on other areas before you decided that you need more power. look at your suspension, gearing, tire size, and traction bar. trying to muscle your way down the track with a big turbo is not the answer because you wont gain any traction which means slower track times

23hatchturbo

ya im not sure on the size of the turbo i dont think its a t4t67 thats not what ralf at ground zerp told me. My chassi supension setup is pretty good i ripped of a 1.6 60foot and its hooking pretty good. Im running omni drags fullrace traction bars m&h 25s itr tranny with gsr 4th im preloading super hard its working good for me. I dobt that 590whp is enough to run 9s in a 2500 pound car battle rules maby im wrong please teach me how. Another thing is my trap isnt showing 600whp 10.5 136 i want to find out my my tq is dropping hard. thanks Im going to pull the turbo off in a min im so sick of not nowing the exact specs on this turbo.


Modified by 23hatchturbo at 11:30 AM 10/21/2008


Modified by 23hatchturbo at 11:38 AM 10/21/2008

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 23hatchturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya im not sure on the size of the turbo i dont think its a t4t67 thats not what ralf at ground zerp told me. My chassi supension setup is pretty good i ripped of a 1.6 60foot and its hooking pretty good. Im running omni drags fullrace traction bars m&h 25s itr tranny with gsr 4th im preloading super hard its working good for me. I dobt that 590whp is enough to run 9s in a 2500 pound car battle rules maby im wrong please teach me how. Another thing is my trap isnt showing 600whp 10.5 136 i want to find out my my tq is dropping hard. thanks Im going to pull the turbo off in a min im so sick of not nowing the exact specs on this turbo.

Modified by 23hatchturbo at 11:38 AM 10/21/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

you need to lose some weight on that car. also look into 26's maybe YOU CAN GET LOWER 60 foot time's it takes practice. have you tried using a 3.07 first gear ? it should take .2 off your et's.

your running a .68a/r hmmmm did you think about that one and even your tunning is calling it a T67. you maxed out the exhaust housing is what it looks like. go get a .94a/r and come back

look into a bigger cam and some cam degreeing and tuning.

23hatchturbo

Battle rules the car has to weigh 2500lb min weight limit and yes i was thinking the .63 ar was maxing out. Me and my tunner dont no the exact specs of the turbo im pulling it off now to take some messure ments. we were just guesing its a 67trim Ya im going to get a complete m factory tranny this winter just havent had the extra 5gs laying around. 25in is the max tire size for boti. Im trying to build a competive s/c car thats legal i no its not easy. I have also read on evans tunning site that the t4 .63ar is good to 700plus but ya im figureing my turbo is maxing out just looking for more imput from people that have been there. before i make any changes. thanks guys

23hatchturbo

ya we never messed with the cam gears can that help the tq hold??

tony413

its not that it helps hold torque. it dials the cam in and that can change how much power you make. the main thing you should look into doing is popping the head and making sure the cams are truely installed and degreed to spec and then when you dyno use the cam gears to help find some extra power. try going +2in and 0ex or +4in and +2ex.

i watch a stock ITR with only cam gears pick up 20hp.

boosted k20

is boost staying constant or dropping off in the high end? how r u controlling the boost? try to ramp up the boost pressure in the higher rpm to give u a flat tq curve

23hatchturbo

the cams were installed corectly i understand how messing with cams can shift your powerband. Im wondering why my tq falls hard on the dyno we only reved to 9 cause we were on a dyno pac doing 5th gear pulls so im guessing it continues to drop hard all the way to 10grand were my rev limiter is so when im going down the track im never in my peak tq always past it. next time im on the dyno i will mess with the cam gears we were in a hurry last time. We were on the dyno the morning of the last event. so we got it good and went to the track.

23hatchturbo

boost is holding super solid 30 pounds im useing a manual boost controler. that makes sense. So start at 24psi ramp to 32 or so from lets say 7000rpm to 10000rpm i can see how that could definatly help. I just wish my setup would have more of a flat tq curve or a climb. I have a question so when a turbo is maxing out. the turbo starts creating back pressure withc causes the tq to fall and the power just stays flat is this correct? Or is there other things that cause this to happen cams head flow.


Modified by 23hatchturbo at 1:22 PM 10/21/2008

Schister66

From what i can tell by your dyno graph, the turbo is seemingly running out of steam; however, there may be other factors at work here. Seeing as the rest of your setup seems to be in line though, i would have to rest on the turbo being the limiting factor. You are pushing it pretty hard already it seems. I can't imagine its very efficient anymore...

If you have the money, look into the S366 or S366XL. Those turbos will give you the push you need.

My only concern is the fact that you're looking for a good amount of power, but running Eagle rods. I'm not saying they wont work, but just be aware...

23hatchturbo

thanks thats what im thinking to! just few people have told me my head might be causeing it. Whats the differance in the 366xl vs just 366. And im also watching the eagles and the fact that i have wiescos with the standerd wrist pin. If my car ever hits the 700hp mark i will get some better rods and pistons. Im more worried about the drive train power is usless if you break somthing every run! Cant win any events doing that! So my money will be spent on a mfactory tranny carbon carbon clutch and some dss axles first! I heard some talk that spec clutch just came out with a carbon twin disk for pretty cheap anyone else no anything about this?

Schister66

I dont think the head is causing you any problems. Sure, you could invest in a more agressive set of cams, but i dont think the head would cause this. Hell, people have made well over 700whp on bone stock heads.

The S366 and S366XL differ in that the XL has a larger compressor wheel and makes more power. I'm not up on the technical side of that turbo just yet so you'll have to wait for someone else to answer that in greater detail.

23hatchturbo

cool ya i was thinking the same thing. Im going to get the 366xl this off season

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 23hatchturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the cams were installed corectly i understand how messing with cams can shift your powerband. Im wondering why my tq falls hard on the dyno we only reved to 9 cause we were on a dyno pac doing 5th gear pulls so im guessing it continues to drop hard all the way to 10grand were my rev limiter is so when im going down the track im never in my peak tq always past it. next time im on the dyno i will mess with the cam gears we were in a hurry last time. We were on the dyno the morning of the last event. so we got it good and went to the track. </TD></TR></TABLE>

first off tune in the gear that is close to a 1:1 ratio most cars its 4th some its 5th, for you it should be 4th since a gsr 4th is .848

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 23hatchturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">boost is holding super solid 30 pounds im useing a manual boost controler. that makes sense. So start at 24psi ramp to 32 or so from lets say 7000rpm to 10000rpm i can see how that could definatly help. I just wish my setup would have more of a flat tq curve or a climb. I have a question so when a turbo is maxing out. the turbo starts creating back pressure withc causes the tq to fall and the power just stays flat is this correct? Or is there other things that cause this to happen cams head flow.


Modified by 23hatchturbo at 1:22 PM 10/21/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

let your EMS control boost for you if thats an option. find a tuner that can also log backpressure vs. intake pressure. i also think your graph will change a LITTLE by dyno'ing in 4th gear.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 23hatchturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a question so when a turbo is maxing out. the turbo starts creating back pressure withc causes the tq to fall and the power just stays flat is this correct? Or is there other things that cause this to happen cams head flow.
Modified by 23hatchturbo at 1:22 PM 10/21/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

is that is correct the backpressure is caused by the pressure in the exhaust track being higher than the intake track, which is why its useful to find a tuner that can look at backpressure logs while tuning.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 23hatchturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks thats what im thinking to! just few people have told me my head might be causeing it. Whats the differance in the 366xl vs just 366. And im also watching the eagles and the fact that i have wiescos with the standerd wrist pin. If my car ever hits the 700hp mark i will get some better rods and pistons. Im more worried about the drive train power is usless if you break somthing every run! Cant win any events doing that! So my money will be spent on a mfactory tranny carbon carbon clutch and some dss axles first! I heard some talk that spec clutch just came out with a carbon twin disk for pretty cheap anyone else no anything about this?</TD></TR></TABLE>

your head is not an issue. also the eagle should be fine since the number failure of rods is the bolts, as long as you have 3/8th rod bolts you should be fine. also wiseco are shitz unless you want something else to test out. also i wanna know about that clutch too in for info

23hatchturbo

Ya im loveing the wiescos i have never had a problem with them im running the 3/8s bolt with the eagles and i agree i havent seen many eagles break.

The reason we were tunning in 5th is cause the dyno maxs out at 400tq or somthing im not exatly sure i maxed it in forth. we went to another dyno a roller one im pretty sure its a dyno jet saposivly the best in the state its at drift office in auburn wa. We didnt get a chance to crank the boost there cause we ran into a few problems and its hella expencive to rent that dyno so the next day we went back to my tuners dyno we were in a big hurry to make it to boti in seattle we made like five pulls the afrs were perfect we didnt play with the timeing much the graph looked really smooth so we headed out. I shatered the oil pump gear first run i still had a gay light wieght crank pulley on i had just goten the car together for boti didnt get the new pulley on learned a lesson that day. I pulled the oil pan checked the bearings they still looked brand new thank god. I threw a new set of bearing in anyway and new oil pump car runs mint. I havent had it on the dyno since. but ran it at the track sunday and ran the 10.7@135

Im running Neptune so i can have that control my boost again we just didnt have the time to set it up i will be useing it next time we tune the car.

Im running the comp clutch im loving it now that im preloading better. I was told this spec clutch was a carbon carbon sliper clutch for around 2gs

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The S366 and S366XL differ in that the XL has a larger compressor wheel and makes more power. </TD></TR></TABLE>

XL just uses a different higher extrude honing on the compressor cover. The compressor wheel is the same.

blinx9900

am i the only one that thinks this is normal for a .63 turbine housing, i mean hell the guy is revving a 2.0 to 9000 rpm at the 600whp level, that's a lot of exhaust gas that has to pass through that little .63 turbine housing, step up to a .82

and i personally would not run an ebay fmic on a 600 horse car, get a garret core or something better, it will make a difference.


Modified by blinx9900 at 4:47 PM 10/21/2008

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">am i the only one that thinks this is normal for a .63 turbine housing, i mean hell the guy is revving a 2.0 to 9000 rpm at the 600whp level, that's a lot of exhaust gas that has to pass through that little .63 turbine housing, step up to a .82

and i personally would not run an ebay fmic on a 600 horse car, get a garret core or something better, it will make a difference.


Modified by blinx9900 at 4:47 PM 10/21/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol we can ALL see its maxed out on the dyno thats why i think he should get the .94a/r

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lol we can ALL see its maxed out on the dyno thats why i think he should get the .94a/r </TD></TR></TABLE>

even better, sorry a lot of long responses on this thread, i tried to skim through all of them before posting...

23hatchturbo

Ya and in all the research i have found tells me the turbo is maxed. Now would it be worth it for me to buy a .94 ex houseing and wheel and just use my inducer wheel, or would it just be smarter to buy a completely new turbo?

Im def going to invest in a nice intercooler. thanks for your guys advise.

tony413

go S366 FTW you will love it hands down

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 23hatchturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ya and in all the research i have found tells me the turbo is maxed. Now would it be worth it for me to buy a .94 ex houseing and wheel and just use my inducer wheel, or would it just be smarter to buy a completely new turbo?

Im def going to invest in a nice intercooler. thanks for your guys advise. </TD></TR></TABLE>

if your just upgrading the turbine housing i would say do it, but if you have to upgrade your turbine housing AND turbine wheel to get your desired results i thin kits not worth it, your gonna have a lot of cost and down time and in the end it would just work out better to sell what you have and buy something better, if your staying journal bearing go for the s366

streetracer6rpt

if u could sell ur turbo and get the 366xl, that's what I would do...

quicksilver1689

jump on the 372 bandwagon jk

its a great turbo.