hondaapi

Hello.

In the moment Iīm a little confused about my rod choise.
I got a b16 bored to 83mm Darton MIDīsleeves with ERL-5-main-girdle,
Arias Pistons and complete Crower valve train.

Our HP goal is 550-600hp and a rev-limit at 10.000.

At first I thought to take Pauter, but after talking to Endyne for a while, I got the idea that they are very heavy.
Now what do you think is the best and safest way? Pauter or Crower? And why?
Technical explainations are very welcome.

non-VTEC

im pretty sure either rod will support that kind of power.........

tony1

I've seen a bunch of crower rods stretch and have bushings wear out, I'd take Pauter any day of the week over Crower...

Boostage

Earl and someone from the endyne forums got into it about Pauter. I am going with Pauter.

Rod.

pauter best bet

tony1

Bottom line is I have more experience with high hp hondas than anyone on here, and from my experience, I will never use a crower rod again. I don't care what anyone says about pauter's design or weight, I've seen them work time and time again when others have failed. That's enough reason for me.

DaveF

damn tony, can you walk on water too ?


btw: thanks for the help yesterday.

Drag_On

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I've seen a bunch of crower rods stretch and have bushings wear out, I'd take Pauter any day of the week over Crower...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm with stupid

m R g S r

what about manley/full race? Any bad experiences with them?

hondaapi

Ok. Seems as if most people vote for Pauter. :-)
But they are more heavy than the Crowers. Isnīt it a negative side of these rods.
What can this "extra wight" cause.

Other question is if someone knows what rod bearings I can take. A possibility to take OEM ones?

Thanks

B18Flip

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about manley/full race? Any bad experiences with them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah i wanna know too

tgreaves

All the engines that I tune and work with use Crower rods and I have never seen a problem yet.. All these engines are 500+whp engines..

mrDFWmechanic

i'm thinkin about ditchin my eagle rods and going with pauter just to play it safe

NRN GT4

I was in the same boat, I did trust me its worth it, I already sleep better and the engine isnt even together yet!

Rod.

well I seen manley rods in action in Tommey Ten car. They are still holding up that i know of

91dxcrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by m R g S r &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what about manley/full race? Any bad experiences with them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would like to know as well

mrDFWmechanic

well i'm ditchin the eagle rods regardless, john d's red turbo'd prelude also has manley rods in it and that thing is amazing.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaapi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok. Seems as if most people vote for Pauter. :-)
But they are more heavy than the Crowers. Isnīt it a negative side of these rods.
What can this "extra wight" cause.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What weights are you going on because I cant even find published weights from Crower. Pauter's 510 gram rods are fairly light. But a few grams more isn't going to make that big of a difference as long as its balanced. Strength is paramount.

knockout

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tgreaves &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All the engines that I tune and work with use Crower rods and I have never seen a problem yet.. All these engines are 500+whp engines..</TD></TR></TABLE>

crower

X-Mazda 3 Racer

Well, there are a few things people might be overlooking when researching rods:

THE BOLTS!!!

Crower uses a 3/8" bolt made from H11 material. 260k psi. Highest strength but high corrosion factors meaning that they must be kept clean and lubed and AWAY FROM WATER at all times.

Pauter uses a 3/8" bolt made from MSP220 material. 220k psi. Good strength and good corrosion factors.

Eagle uses a 3/8" bolt made from ARP2000 material. 220k psi. Good strength and good corrosion factors.

Manleyuses a 3/8" bolt made from ARP2000 material. 220k psi. Good strength and good corrosion factors.


These bolt specs will help determine the amount of force the separation angle of the rod can handle before yield. Crower has the best bolt out of these rods by far. Other factors that can help would be the reciprocation weight, the rotating weight, the overall weight, rod material and manufacturing ( forged or plate steel ) and quality of machining including surface finish. All these things can help you choose the rod that best suits your needs.

With that said, I have had success with all the above listed rods. Crower has never given me any issues except when the tuning was off, but that is with ANY rod. Pauter seems to have a great product and I have had no failures due to the rods. Eagle is a great rod for the buck, and since they have switched to the 3/8 bolt, they can handle alot of abuse. Manley is also a great product that I have never had any issues with.

Just my $.02



Modified by GoldenEagleMfg.com at 10:45 AM 4/28/2005

Boostfed

IN my B16A I had Pauter rods, good for 676whp there. In my new GSR Build I went with some Full Race/Manley rods, you can't go wrong with either! As Tony1 said he has MUCH MORE EXPERIENCE with high horsepower cars, he crew chiefed for Kenny Tran, they had probs with Crowers and some others then swapped to Pauter and since as far as I know haven't had any rod failures. I vote for Manley or Pauter.

earl

I used to run Crowers. I had problems with the small end needing to be rebuilt every 10 runs. The only rod bearing I ever spun was with a Crower and I had a bolt failure also. I bought a set of used Pauters off of Tony1 and they are still going strong with no problems. New Pauters went into the back-up motor. I was so impressed with the Pauters that I became a dealer.
As to Manley, I have put them into several customer's motors and thought their quality was quite good. I have not heard anything bad about Manley and i understand Gardella used them with success.
My philosophy is to never stress over rod weight with a turbo motor but focus on strength and reliability. Saving 25 grams of rod weight is meaningless when it comes to making power in a turbo application.

tony1

I think at 500-600hp the crowers are ok, but when we've had problems with them on race cars and we talk to crower to see what we can change to solve the problems, their response is "oh, well those rods are only good for around 600hp". Straight from the horses mouth. Now, tell me this, if you're only going to make 500hp, do you want a rod that "is only rated for 600hp" and has had problems on race cars, or do you want a rod that is rated for closer to 1000hp and is holding up on race cars? Manley and Pauter are the only ones i'd use. Nothing wrong with going a little overkill in this area, you DON'T want rod issues, they suck. Avoid them if you can...

Just a note, it's not even much of a money thing at this point, maybe $100 difference or so. The eagle vs. pauter arguement at least has a fair amount of money difference involved.

h22 civic

pauter

91dxcrx

this is an interesting thread, I always thought crowers were superior. good thing this came up