007EG

So I just installed a 3mm headgasket and dont have the car running quite yet. I installed the cam gears straight up like its stock, while the crank is at TDC. However I do know since i put a thicker headgasket on it will effect the timing and make it more advanced. This means I will have to retard my cam gears. Obviously i'm not adjusting for gain, but just to get the timing back to 0. Just wanna make sure this is correct, and wondering about how much i'll have to retard them. Originally the block and head were surfaced/milled. .005 off of each. So do i just subtract .010 off of 3mm and use that equation?

TIA


Modified by 007EG at 3:43 PM 12/23/2007

007EG

Bump for an answer. You just put the timing belt on like normal....cams straight up and block at TDC. Then after you just change the gears right?

007EG

Nobody has a clue about this? Really looking for some help. Thanks

sander

If these are aftermarket cams, you should follow a degree spec to line them up correctly.

If they are stock, you should line the crank up at EXACT tdc and use the drift pin holes above the cylinder #2 cam rails and align the cams at exact tdc. then put the belt on accordingly if you have to move the cam gear then do so.

007EG

to a smart guy

007EG

bump

maddog20

http://www.newenglandhondarebuilders.com/

They sell what you need to do the job right. Anything else is pissing in the wind.

builtturboeg

just put on like stock the belt tensior takes up all the slack

LastGenEK

I Dont think this guy is understanding us. there is no difference in timming

quicksilver1689

you will be fine, degreeing cam is always a bright idea.

white99gsr

i think your trying to hard. your talking about two different aspects of timing. mechanical timing, which is the belt, and ignition timing, which is the angle of the cam in respect to the piston at a degree of ignition spark. that small of a difference (.005) is not going to make a difference.

007EG

.005 ?? I'm talking about 3mm of difference from the new headgasket. Putting a thicker headgasket on will advance the timing wont it? Just like using a single layer gasket retards it? When people talk about this, their talking about ignition timing or cam timing?

blackeg

you will have to use a timing gun to adjust the ignition timing after you get it running. i think you can still get the mechanical timing to be right on tdc for cams and crank

rmcdaniels

He's talking about cam timing people, not ignition timing, and I believe that sander's answer was the correct one. I have to deal with this frequently because I run an extended deck block with aftermarket cams, so I always degree my cams. I also check my piston-valve clearance while I'm at it.

If you need to degree your cams, JDogg has told me that the mega-bling 3-guage kit is really nice, but I modified a cheap Comp/GM kit to work for a lot less. Here's a writeup that I did from when I was first learning to do it:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1441109


Any more this doesn't take me very long, the most time consuming part is swapping out the valve springs and rockers, but even that goes quickly since I got a decent valve spring compressor.

007EG

Well heres the deal. I set the crank to TDC. Lined up the cams to the number two cylinder holes and locked them in, which means the crank and the cams are both matched and at TDC. I put the timing belt on and everything seems to line up perfectyly. I jumped my service connecter and set my ignition timing back to 16 degrees. My cam gears line up perfectly though.

My question is..... Why do they line up, I thought a thicker headgasket made your cam timing advanced? This is why i'm confused.

But everything was at TDC when I put the belt on according to crank and cam alignment. These are just stock GSR cams.


Modified by 007EG at 9:39 AM 12/25/2007

rmcdaniels

If they line up, then run it. You may have just shifted it by one tooth, so it still lines up.

007EG

The cam gears are at 0,0. Should i move the crank to TDC and take some pictures so you guys can see exactly how the cam gears are facing?

rmcdaniels

Are they Honda/Acura cams? If so, then just use the locator dowels, although some locator dowel holes are offset to the side and don't match up with cams with locator holes on the top, but that'll be pretty obvious. If not, then I'd degree them in accordance with the manufacturer's specs.

arc_55

It would be best to degree the cams to have a correct referance point of 0.

007EG

Why does everyone say to degree the cams if setting the crankshaft at TDC and locking the cams in with something with the corresponding holes means their at TDC? Wouldnt that mean their both at TDC and 0,0? No matter what size gasket your using?

Modified by 007EG at 11:05 AM 12/25/2007


Modified by 007EG at 9:01 AM 12/27/2007

rmcdaniels

That looks, good, if the belt slips on with no slack on the front side and them locked in at 0 and the crank at 0 then I wouldn't worry about it.

sander

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That looks, good, if the belt slips on with no slack on the front side and them locked in at 0 and the crank at 0 then I wouldn't worry about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct!

And for those of you others saying to degree the cams. Do you all have OEM Honda opening and closing statistics? With out those your pretty much pissing in the wind anyway. Point is, don't say to degree something if you do not know the figures/what you are talking about.

BLK JDM

Very good information in this thread!!

2 Thumbs up to Sander!! I met you once at Tempest Racing w/ the blue Turbo Si w/ the Rc 1600cc injectors.

007EG

I'm glad it helped everyone.

007EG

Just so anyone else who has the same question has an answer, what I did is this.

Bring crank to TDC (single white mark)

Put cams to TDC by putting a 5mm bolt through the cam holder and into the cam so that the bolt could move in and out freely. (perfectly lined up)

Adjusted the exhaust side cam gear so the belt lined right up on it.

Adjusted the intake cam gear so the belt slid right on it.

Then verified the crank was still at TDC and the bolts still slid in and out freely.

Car runs perfect and I know for sure the cams are now at 0,0.

BTW....this was with stock GSR cams.