anyone ever thought of using a thermoelectric module on a intercooler? i wonder if it will cool the IC down long enough for a short period of a cooler charge temp.

 

Go into more detail javier. Sounds interesting..

 

"How do thermoelectric coolers (TECs) work?
Thermoelectric coolers are solid state heat pumps that operate on the Peltier effect, the theory that there is a heating or cooling effect when electric current passes through two conductors. A voltage applied to the free ends of two dissimilar materials creates a temperature difference. With this temperature difference, Peltier cooling will cause heat to move from one end to the other. A typical thermoelectric cooler will consist of an array of p- and n- type semiconductor elements that act as the two dissimilar conductors. The array of elements is soldered between two ceramic plates, electrically in series and thermally in parallel. As a dc current passes through one or more pairs of elements from n- to p-, there is a decrease in temperature at the junction ("cold side") resulting in the absorption of heat from the environment. The heat is carried through the cooler by electron transport and released on the opposite ("hot") side as the electrons move from a high to low energy state. The heat pumping capacity of a cooler is proportional to the current and the number of pairs of n- and p- type elements (or couples). "

http://www.marlow.com/faq.htm#th06
http://www.melcor.com/applic.htm
http://www.electronics-cooling.com/R...6/sep96_04.htm

oh, and art...i dont remember the link to that gif.

 

damn, what's up with AZ boys in the wee hours ? hehehehe

I bet if we keep arizona dark the whole 24 hrs, a lot of clever invention will born from it...

Javier...

 

haha....that may be true
glad to c u got ur car back

 

yeha, that's dedfinitely a relief, you remembered how I was last week...

it was horrible, but you guys kept me in the staright face...

 

I was actually thinking of ways to cool the IC at work the other day. Just brain storming some ideas mainly. I was going to try out some different techniques and use temperature sensors before and after the IC to get an idea of how effectively it works. One was to just run fine mist water nozzles hooked up to a common resouvoir and just spray the IC down with ice cold water. Bad thing about this is it would probably drip and you can't have any liquids leaking at the track. Another idea would be use the same principle that the NX intercooler bar does, but instead of using N20, use either CO2 or use a canister of that stuff that comes in computer dust sprayers and use a trigger controlled valve of some sort to release the cold gas onto the IC. Those dust sprayers will turn aluminum ice cold when you spray them upside down.

 

Hmm... Might be something worth looking into for a drag car or nice short term, high output operation. Problems are, inefficiency, current draw, cost, and perhaps packaging. In addition, you would need some way to dump the heat at the other side of the p-n junction. However, all these *problems* could be overcome with the right amount of engineering and $^3


hole theory

 

Well damn, now that's an idea worthy of Honda-tech. I suspect however that as usual you can't get something for nothing, the power required to drive a thermo-electric cooler in such a manner that it would pump heat away from the intercooler would also pose a significant load on the alternator and thus rob the crank of hp.

Also, as you cool the intercooler you'll be heating up one side of your p-n junctions so you'll have to figure out a way to dump that heat before it burns up the junctions. Same problem you've just moved the heat around.

 

I've thought about this. The little electric heat pumps are horribly inefficient. They use tons of electricity and in addition to pumping heat, they create quite a bit of their own heat also. You would need a good way to get rid of this excess heat and keep it away from the cooler. It costs quite a bit of money for just a small weak unit, I'd hate to see the price for a powerful large TEC (not to mention the current draw). I'd love to see some results of trying TECs out, but the h20/n20/co2 sprayer idea sounds more feasible.

If you are intrested in some cheap used 12v TEC units check out:

Mendelson Electronics Company Inc. part# 580-0041 $16 with large heatsink.

 

right...thats why it would be short term only

 

[Modified by Mase, 11:58 PM 11/17/2002]

 

its gotta be worth a try, if the DOE has interest
http://www.trucks.doe.gov/pdfs/V/121.pdf
http://www.hi-z.com/websit07.htm

i think i found my senior design project

 

WORST IDEA EVAR!!!111

i dont think you're ever gonna make enough power to negate the use for such a futile, elaborate way to take heat away from the IC... why not just spray it with co2 or nitrous... or just switch to an air to water intercooler and stick your finger in a socket while using the garden hose..

oh... yeah i am just kidding, i know javier and i like starting ****...
very interesting post, but when you still have to use sticks to start a fire like some of us.. a bit over the head..


[Modified by FFgaeson, 1:31 AM 11/18/2002]

 

well i guess it would work with a bigass plate that ran parallel to the IC core with the other plate behind it or somethign, but then air flow through the core might suffer, i would imagine that being expensive as hell.

any word on how much current its gonna take to power that thing too? Watch it be something silly so you need 11 alternators haha that would be funny. its 136 i need to get up soon.

 

I was trying to do some quick calculations, but its 3:47 am here, and i gotta get up at 7am, so its not happening, maybe tomorrow, g'night

 

I can just see Javier and Geoff sitting in class thinking of ways to make things better. I know you do!!

 

This is why H-T is the best. Too much of car performance is based on guessing and trial and error... it's nice to see engineers (or at least engineering students) not confined by corporate lawyers and a bottom line.
You don't see any kind of innovation like this in any area other than import (sport compact) performance... in a few years, sc drag racing will be faster than any racing has been before.

 

man its no joke. We sit there in class, try to pay attention but just argue about turbo cars all day long. Then i make javier laugh real hard and the teachers always get pissed at him

its pretty funny tho, all our classmates that know us think were hardcore gearheads and everyone else thinks were slacker retards with ADD. I think they might both be right

 

I know what that's like, for sure...
You guys make me want to go back and finish my EE degree

Just to add to the actual topic...
I know NX makes that N-tercooler kit, and also a lot of people are recommending to use co2 instead of n2o - mostly for cost. I don't have any of my Chem books handy, but what is the temperature difference in liquid form between co2 and n2o? If n2o is much colder than co2 it might be worth the price for the more expensive fill...
I also want to know if the cooling effect when spraying on the intercooler would be anywhere near similar to what a very very small shot (~20) sprayed a half a foot or so before the tb would be?


[Modified by MintFlavored, 6:20 PM 11/18/2002]

 

thanks ffgeoff btw, ur the worse lab partner EVAR!

 

sieradzki was PISSED you didnt go to class!!! hahaha

you were the only one who didnt go today!! BUSTED

 

they require too much current, cost too much, and the battery to support them would weigh a lot.

spraying a compressed gas to chill the IC is cheaper, more effective, lighter, and doesnt create additional heat.

Thermoelectric coolers are heat pumps, and they only displace thermal energy from one side to another, and then you have to keep removing that heat quickly for them to be effective. They work great on the other ICs: Integrated Circuits.


engineering is applied science. if you're not thinking of how to implement it from the get-go, then you're usually wasting your time.

 

I've put some thought into this as it was a subject posted a long time ago. If you insulate a container and use the peltier to cool liquid and use a liquid to air IC, you might be able to make it work for short -moderate runs. But as far as long term all out power, the water will heat faster than a medium sized peltier will cool. They can go to really low temps, but their capacity is limited. If the container itself used peltiers on their larger sides and had air passing over the hot side constantly, you'll have a very cold water reserve while normal driving and very cold IC water when you need it. The key is insulating the exposed piping/container and keeping the water at a set temp (as not to freeze it over the peltier). I'd draw a sketch, but I've got no host....hehehe.... When the water is cold enough (water
-glycol is good to below 0deg F) or before a run, turn it off and the reservoir will hold the temps through the run and no load will be presented to the elec system...

 

Using the AC compressor to chill a liquid-air IC reserve tank would be much more efficient if you're looking for a way to give a short-term performance boost.