Why is it so bad to spray in fifth gear? I've heard several people say not to spray for longer than like 10 second bursts, understandable. But what's the deal with fifth gear? Why is fourth so much safer? Your on the interstate at like 110, why not take the lead?

 

5th gear is really weak and its not good for the tranny.

 

Is this the only reason? There has to be something else?

 

I asked the very same question about a yr ago when I spraying on my GSR. No one really gave a straight answer. Perhaps it deals with the amount of load on the motor.

^free bump^

 

just remember back in the day when cars had 4 gears. Well they put the 5th to drop the rpms for freeways and mpg. this is just like saying why is OD so bad to drive in the city, it just puts unneeded stress on your motor.
My boy snapped his crank like a twig, shooting his NOS on a vett in 5th gear. This also chingered his syncros. I have no idea why this happens, its just known.

Just try driving without it and see for yourself in the city or freeway just be in 4th and shift to 5th you rpms drop big time..

 

That's what i had thought but that doesn't make sense to me because gearing changes from model to model.

Edit: But when i shift to fifth it really doesn't drop that much more than any other shift if I'm shifting at redline (7500) or so.


[Modified by alphenom, 4:46 PM 4/2/2002]

 

i dunno dude, i've hit 100+ in 4th gear and never had to shift to 5th. if you are freeway racing with nos, it should be over in a matter of seconds, shouldnt have to go past 100 for very long. downshift, spray, turn on your emergency blinkers, and let off. taking your car up to speeds that high for a long time adds a lot of wear and tear with nos. (as does spraying uphill)

 

I'm just saying that alot of my freinds cars (na 3000t's, rs camaro's and such) and mine (01 base lude) are quite comparable on the interstate and when we race, usually when following from one point to another, we are pretty equal but we do go all out and almost top them out. I know it's pretty bad on a car to run at or near it's top speed repeatedly and for distances. I'm just curious if it's really that bad. I just don't wanna bomb under my hood at like 130, it would probably end up being worse than just underhood damage at that speed if I were to have some catastrophic failure.

 

well topping your car out isn't bad once and a while but for minutes at a time yes. Its vtec not bullet proof. Your rings take the stress on this. I just brought in a prelude that toasted some rings on the freeway because of this she was racing a bullet bike And trying to hang and " all i heard was a pling pling" Her rings were blue and purple on top and her oil pump gear was in pieces.

Also on the 5th gear thing. It may not seem alought but, it is. I know for a fact that that gear is only designed to drop rpms and get better mpg. 4th does what 5th does just with more rpms. You could also look at it this way. Overreving is only like 1000 more than your redline in most cases (for preludes). Also preludes have balance shafts that love to break doing high speeds for long periods.

Also loads change with gears.

 

From what I have heard, it is because 5th is such a long gear that you do not reach a high enough rpm to safely run nitrous.

 

How about you go and spray in 5th for about a minute. Then tell me how things go afterwards. You might get away with it a few times, but it's only a matter of time before something gives.

Personally, I don't think there's a need to spray in 5th. If you're racing on the hwy and you just can't seem to catch up with that other car in 3rd or 4th...what makes you think you can do it in 5th? Hwy races are only tests of top speed and ballz. Whoever tops out first loses...

Save the NOS for the drag strips or stoplight races.

 

Yea that really doesn't sound good. Any fixes for the balance shaft thing? This wasn't me but I've gotten mine pretty close to this before. This dude actually hit the rev limiter on this run. http://www.dvmotorsports.com/endless...s/steve150.WMV" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer nofollow external">http://<a href="http://www.dvmotorsp...eve150.WMV</a>
Also what's up with the oil pump gear? Just too much too fast? I guess it's just not a good idea to spray at extremely high speeds, because of the weak fifth gear (I've heard of weak fifth synchros but no problems with the actual gear.), or because of the weak oil pump gear & rings. But further down the road would it be possible to do this if I were to resleeve the cylinders & deck the block? Is the only way around the oil pump thing a dry sump setup? Does anyone make an electric oil pump? My curiousity just gets me in more trouble. Honestly I'm not much of one for building a drag oriented car, it like it's wasted, unusable power for the streets. I spend most of my time on the interstate and on backroads like the Natchez Trace (voted like the number one driving road in america by car and driver). It just seems like a better judge of all out power and driver skill, as well as a safer, alternative to get my thrills off the track than stupid ricer stoplight bullsh*t.

 

I'm not stupid, I understand the concept of engine load/ heat stress etc. that's not what I was saying.

I've never actually redlined my car in fifth. And from a 60 start usually I'm the one in the lead so it's not like im trying to catch up with someone out of my league. IMO ***** have nothing to do with it because my car is just about as stable 115 as it is at fifty, save for environmental factors such as cross winds/ road textures and such. I'm just saying that when I'm at speed (hitting v-tech) in fifth it would be nice to have that burst of power that puts me so far ahead of my competition in every other gear.

Edit: Sorry about the double post but I fealt that I had to reply to this one.


[Modified by alphenom, 6:23 PM 4/2/2002]


[Modified by alphenom, 6:50 PM 4/2/2002]

 

yea why would you need to unless you got a slow *** car.
there is no reall need to race at 140, 150whatever mph.

 

well your fuel pump has a strong gear it just that is has a soft middle so for that fact it likes to shatter. just get a stainless steel gear simple. I don't wont to argue that you couldn't shoot in 5th its just not recommended. If your behind the competition get boost and the nitrous. But why risk failure for some little nos shot in 5th theres no point. I personally feel dumb if I knew the caution of doing this and did it anyway for the kicks and chingered my motor. I personally think 5th is a OD gear and is designed for lowering rpm and getting mpg and crusing in this gear not, gassing the hell out of it and hitting nitrous. I don't think the stress on the crank is good either. This is a personal opinion, but in every case like I mentioned before results aren't pretty, but they are costly.. My opinion is based on results. No offense to anyone just trying to help..

 

Thanks for the advice on the oil pump gear, didn't know they made an ss replacement. I know racing at like 150 isn't exactly well the most sane thing to do either, but I'd still rather race on something like an interstate where if I do get hurt it'll be me and only me. I guess your right too about the risk of breaking not being worth the gains of spraying, I just wish it was. And I don't mean to get defensive it's just that I'm kinda used to dealing with the f*ckers in other sections.

 

you have to understand how nitrious work for one, at higher rpms nitrious is being burned less. you will feel the effect more at low rpm. i'm sure if you ran a 150shot or something youd feel it at higher rpm but im speaking from my own 70hp shot.

regardless nitrious is mainly a low end hp adder, when you hit it at 3000 rpm it feels like theres a truck behind you pushing you, gives the car alot more torque than anything. when your at 6000 rpm and you punch say in 4th or 5th honestly your barely going to feel it. in short nitrious is better for off the line racing. imo its the best bang for the buck.just use it in moderation.

 

So is a weak tranny (5th gear) or syncros the only reason you shouldn't spray in 5th, or are there other reasons ? If this is so, they what would happen to a 300+ whp Honda that has it floored in 5th ?

I know that when I have done top-end runs at 130+, I have no probs with 5th, and yes, often hit 5th when racing... M3's and MBs don't go down easily as a slow car would....

 

5th gear is an OD gear in our cars meant for highway cruising. It's not recomended that you boost/spray in 5th because the stresses on the motor are greater.

Example. Hop on a 21 speed mountain bike. Put the bike on the smallest gear in the front, largest in the rear. This essentially equals 1st gear in our cars. The bike will be *real* easy to pedal from a standstill. Now, put the bike on the largest cog in the front, smallest in the rear, this is essentially 5th gear in our cars. From a standstill, try and get the bike moving. It'll be hard as hell to do, your quads will burn, blah blah. Now this is a huge oversimplification, but its basically how the gearing in our cars work.
Now lets take the case of a power adder. In 1st gear you will just roast the tires with added power. In 5th, motor/you already stressed, add juice or boost, and something in the driveline is gonna give.

Tom
(i wonder if that made any sense to anyone but me)

 

"but I'd still rather race on something like an interstate where if I do get hurt it'll be me and only me. "

that is a bullshit quote. you can NEVER say something like that. its like saying if you commit suicide no one will give a damn.

there are so many possibilities, the amount of people that will get hurt is not your choice. every other month here in california i hear about people dying in street racing. a few months back, some guy street racing hit another car... both the drivers in those cars died while the other racer left the scene. he had one week left until he graduated high school! wanna know what really sucks? the driver in the other car he hit was his mother.

 

This is basically what I was going to post. There is a lot of stress on a motor in 5th compared to 1st where it has almost no work to do, hence 1st gear zipping by in a few seconds, and 5th taking a minute to wind out. To spray in 5th is really hard on the rods, crank, as well as the clutch and other driveline components.

As a conparison, with my turbo, I can dump the clutch at 4,000 rpm and fry the tires without the clutch slipping. I can nail 2nd and the clutch doesn't slip at all. If I pull out to pass at 65 or even 85 mph and just ever so slightly push the gas down more, the clutch just frys like crazy because there is so much more load.

 

Heh, heh... sounds like street racing urban legned... Moral of the story ? Don't street race, the life you save could be your mom's. LOL !

What you said about the N20 affecting the rods, crank, etc made sense to me, but I did not get why your clutch would fry gassing it at 65 or so (stock clutch?).

 

Ok what I meant by that was if I'm going to race someone I want to be sure that there is no one else around for me to hurt. If I'm gonna hurt myself (don't plan on it but it could always happen) I don't want to take anyone down with me. Quite different from premeditated suicide since well I'm trying not to kill myself or hurt anyone else. I say I don't like the stupid stoplight crap, because at a stoplight you don't have guardrails, medians designed to keep cars on the roads etc. Stoplight something happens, lose control of the car (I don't care how good you are it can happen), and your flying across lanes of traffic/ intersections/ or into the back of someone. I think ideally a track is where it should happen but it's not an ideal world. And your not gonna tell me that you don't or haven't ever raced anyone on the streets.

 

It's stock. Actually now its on the garage floor. But I'm just saying that the load in 5th gear is that much more than the load the engine sees by dumping in 1st, or shifting hard in to 2nd or 3rd.

 

get a 21 speed mountain bike or a 18 speed

ride it in 1st gear
pretty easy to pedal huh?

ride it in 21st gear
not so easy eh?