Spool and Lag
12-28-2003, 04:48 PM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A Place in, Florida, USA
Posts: 7,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spool and Lag
Is when a turbocharger spools, hits X amount of boost or lag overrated in our community? I'm not asking to gain knowledge about the subject as I already have my own opinion. I would just like to hear from other Honda Tech users.
12-28-2003, 04:55 PM
#2
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Secret Tweaker Pad
Posts: 3,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (0x64)
Well I dont know really. I like a turbo that lags in our high revving turbo engines for the sake of traction. On the other hand driving a car with a T-25 or a Mitsu turbo is fun as well. I think its the owners opinion.
12-28-2003, 05:03 PM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A Place in, Florida, USA
Posts: 7,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (TeStUdO)
I agree. It's the owner's opinion and what they prefer. I personally want a turbocharger that flows 60lbs/min, makes 16lbs by 5000RPM - 5000RPM (B16a in my case) and makes power all the way to the rev-limiter. The thing I don't like is people being TOO worried about when the turbocharger actually starts making boost when most of them have an 8200RPM rev-limiter. Eh ... I might stop before people start flaming me and not posting their opinions on this subject 
12-28-2003, 05:07 PM
#4
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Secret Tweaker Pad
Posts: 3,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (0x64)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Eh ... I might stop before people start flaming me and not posting their opinions on this subject </TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually 0x64 you started a pretty interesting topic and I think there will be alot of varied opinions on this. I tend to agree with yours though.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Actually 0x64 you started a pretty interesting topic and I think there will be alot of varied opinions on this. I tend to agree with yours though.
12-28-2003, 05:09 PM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A Place in, Florida, USA
Posts: 7,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (TeStUdO)
I think it's interesting topic too. We always talk about this here offline but it's never discussed online in the forums to my knowledge.
12-28-2003, 05:14 PM
#6
Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Biggest Little City
Posts: 2,648
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (0x64)
I often think that people are far too concerned w/ an early spool up. It seems that many people want a turbo that spools up fully by 4k or earlier and could care less about the flow of it top end. I personally don't want any boost till I want it! By this I mean that if I want boost, then I'm willing to rev that extra 1000rpms to get it. It's kinda like vtec, I hate when I'm driving around town and tapping into vtec in every gear before shifting. And when racing, your rpms never drop below 4500k so what does it matter if you are making full boost by 3500k? I like the late, hard hitting pull of full boost followed by vtec! 
12-28-2003, 06:08 PM
#7
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somerset, NJ, USA
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm turbo-ing my daily driver LS in NJ and i decided i needed a later spool for traction control. If i lived in sunny CA or AZ i might have gone with a quicker spooling turbo, but i never know what the weather will be so i decided to save my *** and get a later spooling turbo. I think alot of people are buying these t3/t4 turbos when they really dont need em. D series looking to make 200whp dont really need a hybrid...i think alot of people get sucked into that. I know i did when i first started wanting to turbo my LS.
Trending Topics
12-28-2003, 06:40 PM
#8
Re: (bigwig)
The d16z6 revs to about 7k. i could not deal with a turbo that didn't make 10psi until 4k. My t25 made 9psi at about 2500 BUT it dropped off at about 5500. Ideal for Auto x but kinda disapointing on the street and just funny if you shift at redline.
I am in the process of putting on a t3 w/ .63 a/r turbine and .42 50trim comp. Hopefully this will give me 10psi before 3500 and pull to redline. It seems like if you can have full boost for 1/2 your revs it will make a nice street setup, depending on the total hp you are making. It's all about compromise and what you want to use your car for.
I am in the process of putting on a t3 w/ .63 a/r turbine and .42 50trim comp. Hopefully this will give me 10psi before 3500 and pull to redline. It seems like if you can have full boost for 1/2 your revs it will make a nice street setup, depending on the total hp you are making. It's all about compromise and what you want to use your car for.
12-28-2003, 07:29 PM
#9
Better than steak
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 16,859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (0x64)
Getting a large turbo for traction issues is the worst excuse ever. Saying something like that is like saying the famous, "run the LS tranny because you stay in boost longer."
When selecting a turbo make as much power you want with in a given power band and learn to drive it or turn down the boost. Its all about area under the curve...
art
When selecting a turbo make as much power you want with in a given power band and learn to drive it or turn down the boost. Its all about area under the curve...
art
12-28-2003, 07:32 PM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A Place in, Florida, USA
Posts: 7,277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (Arturbo)
I agree with that for the most part too. What I should of said is I am willing to wait for 16lbs @ 5200RPM rather than 16lbs @ 4600RPM if I am making more power as it's not a big deal (rev-limiter 8200RPM+).
12-28-2003, 07:33 PM
#11
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Secret Tweaker Pad
Posts: 3,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (0x64)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree with that for the most part too. What I should of said is I am willing to wait for 16lbs @ 5200RPM rather than 16lbs @ 4600RPM if I am making more power as it's not a big deal (rev-limiter 8200RPM+).</TD></TR></TABLE>
True, but I'd rather have a big turbo thats capable of a ton of HP than one that just fits the bill for what I want and is maxed out there.
True, but I'd rather have a big turbo thats capable of a ton of HP than one that just fits the bill for what I want and is maxed out there.
12-28-2003, 07:40 PM
#13
Better than steak
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 16,859
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (TeStUdO)
Why so you can have a power band from 9.5-10rpm? And have a power band that is only 500rpm? When you look at a dyno people always see the "flat" torque line and think its good. But its just means they are shifting too soon and not reving far enough.
Noting against you guys, but some of the coments I see here are retarded.
art
Noting against you guys, but some of the coments I see here are retarded.
art
12-28-2003, 07:44 PM
#14
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Secret Tweaker Pad
Posts: 3,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (Arturbo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why so you can have a power band from 9.5-10rpm? And have a power band that is only 500rpm? When you look at a dyno people always see the "flat" torque line and think its good. But its just means they are shifting too soon and not reving far enough.
Noting against you guys, but some of the coments I see here are retarded.
art</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well my comment was meant to say I want a setup that is capable of upgrading (i,e, turning up the boost) and not having to buy a new turbo.
Noting against you guys, but some of the coments I see here are retarded.
art</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well my comment was meant to say I want a setup that is capable of upgrading (i,e, turning up the boost) and not having to buy a new turbo.
12-28-2003, 08:02 PM
#15
Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Biggest Little City
Posts: 2,648
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (Arturbo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Getting a large turbo for traction issues is the worst excuse ever. Saying something like that is like saying the famous, "run the LS tranny because you stay in boost longer."
art</TD></TR></TABLE>
Lol. Well put Art! I love that tranny argument.
To me it just seems more important to have the power there when you need it, up top!
art</TD></TR></TABLE>
Lol. Well put Art! I love that tranny argument.
To me it just seems more important to have the power there when you need it, up top!
12-28-2003, 08:04 PM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (TeStUdO)
I am also wondering if anyone that wants "lag" to aid in traction has ever driven a high HP FWD car. Whether full boost hits at 5k rpm or 3k rpm you still have traction problems.
Drive down the interstate in a 350+ whp car in third gear and step on it. As soon as it spools it will light the front tires up instantly. Art has it right... learn to drive the car with the setup that you choose to use.
Drive down the interstate in a 350+ whp car in third gear and step on it. As soon as it spools it will light the front tires up instantly. Art has it right... learn to drive the car with the setup that you choose to use.
12-28-2003, 08:07 PM
#17
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Secret Tweaker Pad
Posts: 3,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (integra_gsr98)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integra_gsr98 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Art has it right... learn to drive the car with the setup that you choose to use.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well why did you want to upgrade turbos then when your 60-1 could have easily got you the power you wanted?????
Well why did you want to upgrade turbos then when your 60-1 could have easily got you the power you wanted?????
12-28-2003, 08:08 PM
#18
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somerset, NJ, USA
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (Arturbo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Getting a large turbo for traction issues is the worst excuse ever.
art</TD></TR></TABLE>
I take it you dont live in a region of the US that has inconsistant weather. And i never said i got a larger turbo, i got a turbo that will spool later. .63/.60 T3 is not big in comparison to all these t3/t4's that are on D series making 200hp.....
art</TD></TR></TABLE>
I take it you dont live in a region of the US that has inconsistant weather. And i never said i got a larger turbo, i got a turbo that will spool later. .63/.60 T3 is not big in comparison to all these t3/t4's that are on D series making 200hp.....
12-28-2003, 08:33 PM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (TeStUdO)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeStUdO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well why did you want to upgrade turbos then when your 60-1 could have easily got you the power you wanted?????</TD></TR></TABLE>
I like new shiny parts.
I am in the process of changing out my entire setup this winter, but it is moreso just because I get bored with things easily.
Well why did you want to upgrade turbos then when your 60-1 could have easily got you the power you wanted?????</TD></TR></TABLE>
I like new shiny parts.
I am in the process of changing out my entire setup this winter, but it is moreso just because I get bored with things easily.
12-28-2003, 08:39 PM
#20
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Secret Tweaker Pad
Posts: 3,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (integra_gsr98)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integra_gsr98 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I like new shiny parts.
I am in the process of changing out my entire setup this winter, but it is moreso just because I get bored with things easily.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe you can sell them all back to Elite and you wont owe them any more money
I like new shiny parts.
I am in the process of changing out my entire setup this winter, but it is moreso just because I get bored with things easily.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe you can sell them all back to Elite and you wont owe them any more money
12-28-2003, 08:45 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (TeStUdO)
Haha. **** it.
I am hoping for a nice broad powerband for next season. Hopefully full boost will come on between 5000 and 6000 rpm, and rev somewhere between 9000 and 10000 rpm w/ a very nice torque curve that falls off as late as possible.
I am hoping for a nice broad powerband for next season. Hopefully full boost will come on between 5000 and 6000 rpm, and rev somewhere between 9000 and 10000 rpm w/ a very nice torque curve that falls off as late as possible.
12-28-2003, 08:52 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag
i think its best to get the smallest turbo possible for desired powerband..
example: if you run sub 300whp, theres no need for T3/T04E series.. you could still have peak hp at high rpm with smaller series turbos,
advantage is:
1. more torque at lower rpm
2. quicker response when needed,
3. you want to run your turbo at best efficiency according to graphs, t3/t04e isn't going to be best effiecient at say.. 5-7psi
example: if you run sub 300whp, theres no need for T3/T04E series.. you could still have peak hp at high rpm with smaller series turbos,
advantage is:
1. more torque at lower rpm
2. quicker response when needed,
3. you want to run your turbo at best efficiency according to graphs, t3/t04e isn't going to be best effiecient at say.. 5-7psi
12-28-2003, 09:19 PM
#24
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Secret Tweaker Pad
Posts: 3,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Spool and Lag (MaxSterling)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MaxSterling »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honda's launch around 3k anyways so t3/t04e is perfect, b/c it spools at 3k on stock gsr engines.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah they launch there but unless you have a 2 step or something to mess with timing and fuel you arent making boost at launch.
Yeah they launch there but unless you have a 2 step or something to mess with timing and fuel you arent making boost at launch.
