I was wondering how do the sleeves crack before the pistons go. I have heard it is kind of unusual for that to happen. i have a b16a motor and from what i read they can hold a good amount of boost. The guy at the shop said that they were only at 8 lbs of boost when the motor failed. at first they thought it was a blown head gasket because my radiator cap blew off and white smoke came out my exhaust. they took off the head and there were two cracked sleeves and anti freeze in two middle cyclinders that were cracked. i just curious of how this could of happen. I took the car to a reputable shop who know what they are doing and in know way am i mad at the people who tuned my car.

 

Detonation or running lean, or a combination of both

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16a4 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Detonation or running lean, or a combination of both</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree. Sleeves usually only crack when the motor is seeing severe detonation. Detonation causes cylinder pressure to get sky high, and the sleeves are usually the first thing to fail.

So this definately looks like it's your tuner's fault, especially when only running 8lbs of boost.

On older cars still running stock fuel pump, fuel pressure might get too low causing the motor to run lean which agains causes detonation.

Are you still running stock fuel pump? Did your tuner measure fuel pressure?

 

no im running a walbro 255 fuel pump with 750 rc's

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bpotts900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no im running a walbro 255 fuel pump with 750 rc's </TD></TR></TABLE>

where u running a basemap before goin to the tuner when u install the 750cc

 

yes

 

Sleeves can still crack on a good tune. Now if your pistons are melted and ur spark plugs are chewed up, then yes...detonation occured from un proper tuning. But if the sleeves just cracked and your spark plugs, pistons are perfectly healthy. Then your just a victim of stock sleeves that couldnt hold the power or boost, and then again your boosting out of ur range if that happens.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iBrandon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But if the sleeves just cracked and your spark plugs, pistons are perfectly healthy. Then your just a victim of stock sleeves that couldnt hold the power or boost, and then again your boosting out of ur range if that happens.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ah, the old "stock Honda sleeves suck" myth.... From what I've seen, stock sleeves only fail when people mess something up. Bad tuning, running lean, detonation, overboosting, running too hot etc etc.

If your motor and tune was 100%, stock B16 sleeves would easily hold 8lbs of boost. Lots of peope are running over 600whp on stock sleeves, and have done so for years.

 

yea thats true, right after he found the sleeves were cracked he pulled up a dynochart of a car that made of 500 hp on stock sleeves and is still running. so i have to agree with pompiuses on that one.

 

I live in DE, who tuned your car?

 

i thought boosting out of range would be something like 12lbs and up depending the setup and some other variables. but 8 is still in range for many setups i would think but then again look what happened to mine.

 

tempest racing

 

Dont gague sleeve stregnth on PSI, they have been prven to hold over 25psi/600hp, either the motor was hurt prior to the dyno session or tuner error.

 

yea thats true, but dont you think a compression test would have showed if the motor was hurt. When i asked after the dyno if they did a compression test they said no. thats was kind of odd dont you think.

 

the stock sleeves will make 5-600hp is more of the exception than the rule

if you have a PERFECT block, then yes the stock sleeves will hold up fine

BUT if it has been damaged before then they wont. Hydrolock, overheating, or any number of things can cause sleeves to fail.

 

do u have n e dyno graphs of the motor before it popped?

can you post up the timing screen shots? was the distributor timing sync'd to the programs timing?

 

like i said before, this is not a post to blame them or anything like that, they are cool guys and i dont want to discourage anyone from going there because like i said they are a pretty reputable shop for dynoing.

 

i tuned the car...or attempted to. this car broke before we even made a full dyno pull.

i have tuned a TON of cars on stock sleeves, stock motors, etc. hell i tuned one last night that was 100% bone stock and made 355whp with no problems at all.


these motors are OLD. some are good, some are bad. speaking with bpotts900 friend who did the labor on the car....he told me that he told him to take the motor back where he got it right from the get to because the motor looked like it had been through hell and back.


this motor was purchased used from another performance shop local to us. it was a motor they had laying around, so who knows the history of the motor.


i tune several cars a week, sometimes multiple cars a day. i also tune for multiple other shops in the area. a b16 on 8 lbs of boost that breaks before even making a full pull has problems from the get go. another one of our customers has a stock b16 making mid 300's at nearly a bar of boost and has been driving the car every day for nearly 2 years.

it should also be mentioned that once the head was pulled off (for free) it was apparent that there had been some sort of leakage going on for an extended period of time as there was rust (not surface rust) in one of the cylinders that had been there for quiet some time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it should also be mentioned that once the head was pulled off (for free) it was apparent that there had been some sort of leakage going on for an extended period of time as there was rust (not surface rust) in one of the cylinders that had been there for quiet some time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Crap motor, great tuner for chiming in

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bpotts900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea thats true, but dont you think a compression test would have showed if the motor was hurt. When i asked after the dyno if they did a compression test they said no. thats was kind of odd dont you think. </TD></TR></TABLE>

no not at all. if anything you should have done a compression test before you brought it to the dyno. i beleive or dyno tuning check list mentions doing atleast a compression, if not a leak down test before bringing it to the dyno.

even so a compressoin test isnt going to tell you that you have "weak sleeves"

we offered to do anything we could to help, including finding you a b16 block and dropping it in the car the very next day. and of course the offer still stands if you need help with anything just let us know

 

Why the hell would you swap in an engine in unknown condition and then boost it? If it was sold under the pretents that it was good, I would demand my money back from whoever sold you the engine. However, the ownus is on YOU to make sure your car is dyno worthy, not the dyno/tuning shop. They are there to tune ... unless you specify "please to a leakdown/compression check first and don't dyno it if anything looks odd".

 

we offered to do anything we could to help, including finding you a b16 block and dropping it in the car the very next day. and of course the offer still stands if you need help with anything just let us know


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thats why im not mad about the whole situation becuase yes you guys did try to help, i just dont want this to happen again when it gets dynoed again, thats the whole purpose of me asking the questions. this isnt trying to bash your bussiness in any kind of way, which i have stated 2 or more times. and when i got back i told everyone it was probably wasnt tuner error.

 

There are too many variables here to blame your tuner or the person who you bought the motor from.

Tempest Racing has a good reputation, a stock b16 on less then 1 bar of boost is not a challenging tune.

The reason your motor failed could be anything from a problem with your ignition control module to an electrical issue with your vehicle which was not caught during the tuning session etc.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bpotts900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea thats true, but dont you think a compression test would have showed if the motor was hurt. When i asked after the dyno if they did a compression test they said no. thats was kind of odd dont you think. </TD></TR></TABLE>

PM'd

 

Sounds like you had a crap motor to begin with...put another block in the car and boost it.