Nextelbuddy

my dizzy is rotated foward towards the fire wall, and my crank pully when the little white mark on it is lined up with the thingy on the lower timing cover my cam gears are not pointed straight up they are pointing upward to the left (toward radiator).... i discovered this today. but yesterday when i got tuned we didnt see this and my tuner did something with hondata and tried to compensate for the problem with the timing electronicly in hondata.

well i plan on getting the timing on teh cam side fixed this weekend but my friend that is going to be doing it with a timing light might have a problem. even if he sets the timing correctly on the crank and cam side wont he have a problem getting the timing perfect since my hondata is still compensating from when my tuner set it yesterday? i thought that maybe i might have to throw in a stock ecu and stock injectors ( i have 880s now and stock ecu wont run them) so that we can set the timing corectly with a timing light. am i wrong in thinking that? any one have any ideas?

turbo96wr

on dohc they will have a slight offset to the left not directly straight up and down

Nextelbuddy

does anyone have a picture of what im looking at?

Nextelbuddy

man you guys wont beleive this. i went out and looked again at the can gears.. and u know how the bottome say PR3 and the top say UP well i lined up the crank pully perfectly with the litle white mark and i looked again and BOTH my cam gears have the arrows pointed straight down and one of them is of by a tooth cus the lines in the middle dont line up perfectly either.....

so basically my cam gears are off 180 degrees with both arrows pointed straight down and my dizzy id rotated towards the firewall... how fucked up is that..

Mase

who assembled the motor?

not smart on your tuners behalf to bandaid a fix.

the proper way is to line up TDC w/ the crank and slide a punch in the top of the cam towers and make sure everything is properly aligned

TurboCX

The cam gears are not upside down. I can tell you that right now. Turn the crankshaft 360 and you will have it set correctly. The up mark will be facing up and the white line should line up again with the mark on the cover.

TurboCX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbo96wr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">on dohc they will have a slight offset to the left not directly straight up and down</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is also correct. They are slightly facing towards the exhaust side and are not actually straight up. If you want, set the motor back to top dead center. Then do what mase said and try to stick a small punch through the oil rails and cams. That way you can varify if everything is lined up correctly. I have a feeling the motor is assembled correctly, but maybe the ignition timing wasn't originally set right. Good luck.

Nextelbuddy

ok you were right. i didnt know that for every full rotation of the crank that that = half rotation on the cams.....

on that note when i line up the little white notch on teh ctank pully with the marking on the lower timing cover the arrows are pointed up to the left as they are supposed to but the little markings on the inside if the cams ( the ones that are supposed to lione up straight with each other and the line on teh timing cover behind it) dont line up with each other... the cam towards the intake manifold lines up with the marking straight accross but line on the cam towards the radiator is not straight acorss it is lower then the other cam...

but when i line up the markings on the cam perfectly with the marking on the timing cover behind the cams then that throws the white notch on the crank pully off from the marking on the lower timing cover...

Nextelbuddy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nextelbuddy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok you were right. i didnt know that for every full rotation of the crank that that = half rotation on the cams.....

on that note when i line up the little white notch on teh ctank pully with the marking on the lower timing cover the arrows are pointed up to the left as they are supposed to but the little markings on the inside if the cams ( the ones that are supposed to lione up straight with each other and the line on teh timing cover behind it) dont line up with each other... the cam towards the intake manifold lines up with the marking straight accross but line on the cam towards the radiator is not straight acorss it is lower then the other cam...

but when i line up the markings on the cam perfectly with the marking on the timing cover behind the cams then that throws the white notch on the crank pully off from the marking on the lower timing cover... </TD></TR></TABLE>

would this cause a serious power loss? i thoguht maybe a minimal loss but not major....

also how am i supposed to set the timing correctly wiht a timing light when my hondata is now compensating for timing electronically?

99B16Si

sounds like one of your cams is off a tooth. obviously its driveable, so i would say take the car to someone who know what theyre doing, have them double check it and put the timing belt on the right way.

and yes this will definitely cause a big loss in power.

Nextelbuddy

thanx i understand that part... i was wondering if any guys who are familiar with hondata could tell me how am i supposed to set the timing correctly wiht a timing light when my hondata is now compensating for timing electronically?

99B16Si

as long as your base timings are the same at the distributor and in the hondata youre fine. your gonna need to take it to your tuner to check the hondata ignition map tho

Nextelbuddy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 99B16Si &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as long as your base timings are the same at the distributor and in the hondata youre fine. your gonna need to take it to your tuner to check the hondata ignition map tho</TD></TR></TABLE>

????? i am not sure about that though.... my timing was messed up on the dyno and the tuner did somethign in the hondata to compensate for the timing issue.... i dont know what he did but whatever it was it caused my car to back fire more now when i let off the gas and now i get a CEL for O2 sensor...

since he did changed the timing electronically in hondata isnt that going to mess me up when i try to set the timing with a timing light? also my dizzy is rotated foward towards teh firewall and i didnt notice this until last night.. so my main concern is the hondata with differnet timing values nto interfering with me tryign to use a timing light to fix my timing now...

Nextelbuddy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the proper way is to line up TDC w/ the crank and slide a punch in the top of the cam towers and make sure everything is properly aligned</TD></TR></TABLE>

what are you talkin about i have heard people talk about this but i have never seen it. ....

Mase

on the top of the cam towers, there are holes that you will be able to slide a punch through the cam shafts when they are lined up at TDC.

if you have your .bin file handy, i can take a look at whatever ur tuner did, but i wouldnt boost on your car until all the BS is fixed man.

Nextelbuddy

oh ok... sorry i dont have any way to extract the BIN file form my hondata. i wish i did so i could find out whats going on. i know whats wrong with my timing - my cam gear closest to the exhaust manfold is off by a tooth ( mark on the gear is lower than the mark on the gear closest to the fire wall) and then my dizzy is rotated towards the firewall. advanced i beleive. i dont think even with a timing light i can fix it thgouh because my hondata will be messing with the ignition timing and will keep throwing the timing light off.. am i wrong in thinking this?