Pat

I haven't installed my kit yet but I found a 91 talon tsi awd for sale, costs about the same as I planned to spend on my turbo kit. Supposedly its making 400 hp and has a whole load of extras and looks pretty sharp from the pics. I haven't taken a look myself but its been maintained by the best DSM shop around in my area.
Does anyone think its better to go with a factory-turbocharged car with awd traction over retrofitting a fwd with turbo? I'm thinking about giving up my project integra

SiRkid

yes and no..great cars but old! and hard to find ones that arent beat to ****.. one modded for 400 hp alreayd..i would be weary of myself.
if you do you honda right ..itll be fine!

Pat

SiRKid, you're in Canada right? What do you think of this price: $10500 CDN for the 91 talon with 189 k, "supposedly mint" but I'm sure its driven hard but is probably well maintained. Tranny rebuilt but motor is original (which is my main concern)

Removed aircan with a K&N
Severely Hacked MAS
95’ Headers
20g Turbo
Custom Turbo piping
Custom Ported O2 housing
2.5’ upper intercooler piping
Crushed BOV
Custom Breather Valve
550cc injectors
Deson 255lfph fuel pump
Rewired Fuel pump with 10g wire
3’ SS down pipe from O2 housing
3’ SS test pipe
3’ SS cat back
3’ SS Magnaflow muffler
Fideneza aluminum Flywheel
Center Force Dual Friction Clutch
EVO shift forks
Custom short shifter
Polyurethane shifter bushings
Autometer Boost gauge
Autometer EGT gauge
A pillar dual gauge pod
Turbonetics manual boost controller
Front RM Sway bar
Rear RM Sway bar
Koni adjustable struts
Suspension Techniques springs
Vibrant front tower bar

Cosmetic/audio Mods:

Clear corners
Mitsubishi grill
16' Eagle alloy rims with 215/50/ Fidenze rubber (50% tread left)
Pioneer CD player
4 7' alpine speakers
2 Alpine tweeters
Alpine V12 amp
Alpine XR 10' sub in box
35% tint all around

SiRkid

too much !

My bro bought a MINT 92.5 for 5000 with 160k on it.
for 5,900 I could build a car that would pwn that one forsale.
id say if it was 8,000 then i would consider it.

maxpsi

I have a friend selling his 90 AWD turbo mitsu that has 87k miles on the car and 300 miles on a newly rebuilt engine. It is stock and was owned by an old lady as you can tell by the low mileage. If you are interested, I can get his email and pics for you. He is asking $3,500, and I trust him a lot. He knows his mitsu, and owns a 11 sec AWD laser.

Smashback

Don't see a lot of old ladies driving awd turbocharged cars

maxpsi

It is possible. As far as old ladies driving sports cars, my mother's first car was a 1972 Camaro SS 350cid 3 speed auto turbo350 tranny. She bought it off lot in 1972 and still drives it today. It is in mint condition and has hella low miles, so there ya go. This guy (Brandon) that I am talking about knows his DSMs, and has sold a few that he worked on before. LOL

Smashback

True...my Mom had a Nova when I was a kid...but I won't tell you that it was a 74 sedan with inline six and auto tranny

Damn we were poor!

SiRkid

its true..
lots of ladies in awd dsm's around me

Smashback

I knew there was something fishy about you damn Canadians

Rob Dizzle

that car is only low 300whp

I wouldnt get it if I were you

my brother has a talon with 375ishwhp
he likes it, but there are quirkes about it

there isnt much aftermarket support

and oem parts arent as cheap

danl

Man, i'd never buy a modded dsm unless I saw it modded from the beginning. These cars are about as bullitproof as they come, but its SOOOOOO easy to do things the wrong way and start breaking parts. I got mine stock and did all the mods the correct way and its been great.

If you must get this car their is still a decent chance it'll be good to you, but when they aren't they aren't in a bad way. Make sure it shifts good. Make sure the motor revvs freely and pulls well in boost. It most likley won't have the top end you're used to in a honda, but should have a ton of midrange.

lazerus

DSM's can be fast as ****, if you maintain them right.

i don't think it's worth the asking price, especially for being such a high mileage motor, it would be needing a rebuild soon if you put any decent amount of boost to it.

that setup should be good for ~400WHP.

The only thing i wouldn't like about the whole deal is the engine mileage.

And DSM's do have their qwirks, and there is plenty of aftermarket support for them, you don't need every aftermarket part there is to go fast in a DSM.

stock 1st gen bottom end can push you into the 11's. Shoot, stock turbo has been known to push times as fast as low 12's w/o nitrous.

It just depends on what YOU want, what YOU like to drive, and how well you can keep a maintenance schedule.

The only things i see wrong with that list is:

1.) Hacked mas. Unless it's an al blaha hacked maf, it's probably going to idle pretty shitty, and would recommend upgrading to a 2nd generation MAF.

2.) The 91's have the 3 bolt rear end (as opposed to the 4 bolt) and they like to break when you launch hard on them. (Upgrade to a 4 bolt rear end fixes this)

3.) Don't neglect the timing belt, or it's associated parts. I would also recommend removing the balance shaft at any chance (a removal kit is ~50-100 bucks) Theese balance shafts can break if you over-revv the engine often. (Not very common at all, but if it happens, you're in for a treat) (So don't over-rev)

4.) You will want to upgrade your bov if you run more than ~20-24 LBS of boost, as even a crushed bov can leak, and crushed (depending on how it's done) can limit how far up the piston can come up, and limit the amount of air coming out.

5.) The sensors are expensive if you ever toast one getting it wet, then applying current. (but you usually can find used ones for cheap)

6.) You need to install a front mount intercooler, and i'd recommend installing 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 inch IC piping. As well as upgrading to a second gen throttle body elbow (stock one for a first gen is bunk)

That's all i can think of off the top of my head, i'd like to look at the car first. But with 189k miles on the engine, it NEEDS to be rebuilt, regardless. The valve seals on a DSM leak slightly even when new, and that bottom end has probably seen better days. You could get away with a valve job, seals, mill, and bottom end seals/rings/bearings.

This isn't meant to scare you, just inform you of the some of the things that DSM's need. It will for sure smoke any bolt on turbocharger kit, and the engine will cost less to fully build than most honda engines (no sleeving required for ultimate boost levels, or bottom end girdle etc.)

Hope this helps,

Brad

Pat

thanks for the help guys... I guess I'll check it out in person and try to haggle on the price. The mileage in miles is actually about 118k. But I am concerned about it anyways.

psi420

Bet you anything the motor is already blown.

DR. ON POINT

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bob-DC2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that car is only low 300whp

I wouldnt get it if I were you

my brother has a talon with 375ishwhp
he likes it, but there are quirkes about it

there isnt much aftermarket support

and oem parts arent as cheap</TD></TR></TABLE>

no aftermarket support? there are streetable 9 second DSM's. Not saying there isnt much aftermarket support for DSM's is like saying there isn't much aftermarket support for Hondas. You obviouslyt have no clue what you are talking about. OEM oparts are way cheaper than a Honda OEM parts.

Low 300 hp? With that list that is given? Maybe with pump gas, shitty tuned and low boost level. That setup is good for well over 400.

To be honest man I say go with the DSM. U will have a fun *** time with that car on the street. Just dont beat the **** out of it. This is coming from a former turbo honda owner and a now DSM owner. The people who wine and **** all day saying that DSM's arent reliable blah blah blah...... full of bullshit. These cars are ******* BULLETPROOF! I have buddies with stock blocks, never been cracked open with 150K+ making well over 400hp with SIMPLE BOLT ONS.

Just like any car you will have to take care of it. When having a 400hp anything u are going to have to do hella maintenance to make it run right. My old honda was probably making a lil under 300 and I was working on that thing every weekend. Not because it was unreliable, or designed shitty, but because I wanted it to run to the best of its abilities.

PM me or IM if u have any questions, more than likely I will be able to answer them.

DR. ON POINT

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by psi420 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bet you anything the motor is already blown.</TD></TR></TABLE>

can't think of anything intelligent to say?

88ZCRX

DSM motors are second only to MKIV Supra motors in terms of reliablity. Their trannies on the other hand are ****. As soon as you start to increase power at all they become a liability. How do I know this? Because I live in DSM land. There are at least 8 400+ DSMs rolling around here and every single one of them has broken at least 1 tranny in the last year alone, if not more. The only person I know of who has a modified DSM and not broken his tranny is my best friend, but he has a stock turbo on close to stock boost and doesn't ever drive it hard (ie thats not saying much). I say go with a TRE tranny right away before any other mods. You will thank me after you put 400+ down and don't break a diff or shift fork going down the track.

Kevin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PseudoSilvia &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">True...my Mom had a Nova when I was a kid...but I won't tell you that it was a 74 sedan with inline six and auto tranny

Damn we were poor!</TD></TR></TABLE>

My mom used to drive a 72 Mustang Mach I with a 351c until her EX husband wrapped it around a pole Then she bought a blue Nova with the six lol.

DR. ON POINT

You are right DSM trannies are weak. Especially ones with 100K+. TRE is sweet, but it isnt really necessary to go all out. You can just use OEM parts in a rebuild and double syncro some of the gears. Parts cost about $400 and labor varies/unless u can do it urself. I believe TRE trannies are somewhere around a G or so. Either way learn how to drive a AWD car correctly and you will be fine.

danl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by psi420 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bet you anything the motor is already blown.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ignorant

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DR. ON POINT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

To be honest man I say go with the DSM. U will have a fun *** time with that car on the street. Just dont beat the **** out of it. This is coming from a former turbo honda owner and a now DSM owner. The people who wine and **** all day saying that DSM's arent reliable blah blah blah...... full of bullshit. These cars are ******* BULLETPROOF! I have buddies with stock blocks, never been cracked open with 150K+ making well over 400hp with SIMPLE BOLT ONS.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, my car is my daily driver. Pretty darn bullitproof IMO.

People told me the trannies were crap when I bought my car. THey aren't the smoothest things in the world since the gears are so big their isn't too much room for the synchros. However, they are darn strong. Friends of mine have run 11's on the stock 3 bolt rear end and stock transmission with no failures. I've also seen people grenade frekin second gear in a stock 2g awd with the only mod being an ACT 2600 lbs clutch, you do the math. I guess the trannies are brittle if you like doin 7000rpm sidestep launches.

lazerus

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88ZCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DSM motors are second only to MKIV Supra motors in terms of reliablity. Their trannies on the other hand are ****. As soon as you start to increase power at all they become a liability. How do I know this? Because I live in DSM land. There are at least 8 400+ DSMs rolling around here and every single one of them has broken at least 1 tranny in the last year alone, if not more. The only person I know of who has a modified DSM and not broken his tranny is my best friend, but he has a stock turbo on close to stock boost and doesn't ever drive it hard (ie thats not saying much). I say go with a TRE tranny right away before any other mods. You will thank me after you put 400+ down and don't break a diff or shift fork going down the track.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There are a few engines out there that kick *** (HP stock wise) the toyota MR2 Twin turbo engine is pretty hefty. the 7M-GTE is good too. Also the Isuzu 4XE1-T

DSMS are great cars, they can go fast, inexpensively. The only thing that scares me about buying one from someone else.. is i'd want to change the timing belt as soon as possible, and drop the balance shafts. a good precaution if you ask me.

Also, the automatic transmissions kick the DSM's manual trannies ***. they handle power very well.

DR. ON POINT

I am going to have to disagree with you there. Automatic trannies are shitty in DSM's. I much rather have a 5-speed. Automatic trannies suck in anything FWD.

psi420

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Ignorant


</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm ignorant because I have seen it happen already with 2 different people?
**** You!

psi420

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DR. ON POINT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

can't think of anything intelligent to say?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You don not want to hear, and or read, what i have to say about DSM's.
I could fill an entire thread with intelligent things to say about those pieces of ****!