Hey guys, we've recently had a few issues with the cam trigger kit with the AEM EMS. The problems were traced back to a change in the software on AEM's end, and we have found the parameters that need to be changed to fix it.

The problems were a rev limiter at an odd rpm, for no reason. The fix is correctly setting up the coil dwell specs. I just wrote a new installation PDF file, please read it if you're having any problems with the trigger, check over your settings and set them as the instructions say.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....d.pdf

Thanks!

And big thanks to "wHOAlly" on here for helping me figure out the problem.

edit: updated with new PDF file, Chad - underpressure02 bookmarked it so it's easier to find things. Thanks Chad!


Modified by tony1 at 2:27 PM 5/16/2007

 

We are setting mine up today and hopefully on the dyno tonight or tomorrow night

Thanks Tony , I will let you know how it works out or if we have an issues or questions

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And big thanks to "wHOAlly" on here for helping me figure out the problem. </TD></TR></TABLE>
any time

instructions look great

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey guys, we've recently had a few issues with the cam trigger kit with the AEM EMS. The problems were traced back to a change in the software on AEM's end, and we have found the parameters that need to be changed to fix it.

The problems were a rev limiter at an odd rpm, for no reason. The fix is correctly setting up the coil dwell specs. I just wrote a new installation PDF file, please read it if you're having any problems with the trigger, check over your settings and set them as the instructions say.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....7.pdf

Thanks!

And big thanks to "wHOAlly" on here for helping me figure out the problem. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Tony, i have a basic understanding of the cam trigger system and it seems to be really slick. the absence of a distributer alone would be worth the cost of the setup for me. However, my tuner, and i for that matter, swear by Hondata. my prelude is currently tuned on the s200 but i will be upgrading to the s300 shortly. are there any plans to make this system compatable with any of the Hondata systems? I feel like if this was, in fact, compatible with the s300, youd really open the flood gates with requests. Maybe i need to do a little more research on the system, and maybe this is just an issue with Hondata, but a collaboration with Hondata to release a new version sounds like it may be beneficial to everyone involved.

sorry to thread jack as well, just wanted the dL. thanks.

 

It's an issue with the stock ECU and HALL sensor signal. Thanks for the update Tony

 

I wish we could make it work with hondata, but the problem is the honda ecu, not hondata. This is a completely different signal from what the oem dist sees, and the honda ecu will not accept this type of signal. If it's possible to convert something in the ecu for this trigger type and pattern, then it's beyond me. I'd definitely work towards it if i though it was possible, i just don't think it is.

What MSD has done is mimick the oem dist signals, using a nice clean digital signal like this, but then convert it back to an analog signal so the ecu can understand it, which pretty much eliminates the advantage of having a digital signal. The low voltage analog signals are very susceptible to RF noise, which is the common problem with the oem dist.

 

Good stuff Tony. Does this new coil dwell stuff only apply to 1.19 AEM boxes?

 

Thanks for the update.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by servion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good stuff Tony. Does this new coil dwell stuff only apply to 1.19 AEM boxes?</TD></TR></TABLE>

if runnin a CDI setup, even on 1.11, wont hurt anything to use the new coil dwell settings

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wish we could make it work with hondata, but the problem is the honda ecu, not hondata. This is a completely different signal from what the oem dist sees, and the honda ecu will not accept this type of signal. If it's possible to convert something in the ecu for this trigger type and pattern, then it's beyond me. I'd definitely work towards it if i though it was possible, i just don't think it is.

What MSD has done is mimick the oem dist signals, using a nice clean digital signal like this, but then convert it back to an analog signal so the ecu can understand it, which pretty much eliminates the advantage of having a digital signal. The low voltage analog signals are very susceptible to RF noise, which is the common problem with the oem dist.</TD></TR></TABLE>

why does MSD convert the signal if it is just going to be converted back to an analog signal? marketing gimmick?

i understand that with your cam trigger, a COP setup is required. is this the main reason why the stock ecu cannot be utilized? can the digital signal from the individual COP's be converted to an analog signal? if MSD can do it why can it not be done in this case?

i would really like to run this setup but i dont want to run the aem ems, nor can i justify the difference in cost of the Hondata to the AEM EMS. sorry to keep on with the questions, but i am just curious. is my logic way off?

 

This trigger setup can be used with any ignition setup, it does NOT require the use of individual coils. The trigger is on the input side of the ecu, the ignition is on the output side. Any combination can be used. What makes it confusing is that inside the oem dist, there is both the ignition components and the triggers (input and output). If you use this trigger with a single channel ignition setup, then the dist is only there to distribute spark, it does not use the sensors inside to trigger the ecu anymore.

Getting individual coils to work on a honda ecu is a completely different problem from getting this trigger to work with the honda ecu. You need 4 ignition outputs on the ecu, to trigger the 4 coils, and the honda ecu only has 1 output.

 

I'm working hard on solutions to allow COP/CNP and the use of Tony's cam trigger with the stock ECU. After I graduate in June, they're at the top of my project list. Hope to have both running on my del sol by the end of summer.

 

youre the man tony. thanks for helping me understand. giving product support on a product i dont even own! you may have not heard the last from me...ill try to start a new thread or keep this to PM from here on out though. thanks again.

 

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm working hard on solutions to allow COP/CNP and the use of Tony's cam trigger with the stock ECU. After I graduate in June, they're at the top of my project list. Hope to have both running on my del sol by the end of summer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

hell yeah. that is what i wanted to hear...and youre here in ohio!

i dont have the technical know-how, nor the time, desire, etc to figure this out myself. ill be looking forward to your developments dave.

 

Tony check your e-mail.

 

Tony does the new dwell setting apply for both COP and Honda dizzy setups? (can't pull up the file here at work, we-todd-did is blocked - grr)

I still haven't installed my trigger kit (stupid new england weather) but *should* be installing at least the cam gear this weekend, then on to figuring out the sensor mount bracket (which doesn't look too simple on my SOHC F23 w/ power steering still intact)

 

Yes, the settings apply to all.

 

Was this aaron's problem?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the use of a cam trigger with the stock ECU. After I graduate in June, they're at the top of my project list. Hope to have both running on my del sol by the end of summer.</TD></TR></TABLE>


This may have been done already. I will have to talk to my "source" and see if he has worked this.

 

Possibly, among other things. His AEM box was very old, one of the first 100 if i remember right. Hoa has been working with him to figure out what's going on with his. For some reason his box won't work on his car at all now and it works at aem, that happened after welding on the car, so it's unrelated, but has stopped them from figuring out the other problem.

 

They were welding on the car and then the box stopped working in the car?

Sounds like EMI fried something that feeds the box.?

 

hay tony will your trigger setup work with the old fast ems. i havent checked into it but if it does i might pick it up.

 

I'm not sure, you'll have to ask FAST. Find out how configurable the inputs are for cam and crank signal. Ask them if your box will work with 6 "crank" pulses per revolution, and 1 "cam" pulse per CYCLE (not per rev). And if it will work with a hall sensor instead of the mag sensors you have now.