HamiltonRex

Hi, stock block setup. Boosted b18c.

I ran ARP head studs TQ'd to 65ft/lbs used loctite on the threads in block.. and the ARP moly lube.

Head gasket is a 0.074" cometic unit..

Do these head studs need a re-torque after say 10 heat cycles? Or am i good to go.

Thanks.

SpeedingHatch

Retorqueing wouldnt be a bad idea

D@nnY

why did you only go to 65? I torque them to 75-81

Pro-Am 1934

Should not be a problem. Are you finding yourself checking them, and them being lose on a normal basis?

Jason

PrecisionH23a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D@nnY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why did you only go to 65? I torque them to 75-81</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep. I do 75 on the gizzers.

Mugencrxsir1

You should be straight with the 65ft/lbs, but checking never hurts.

non-VTEC

re-torquing them is fine..........but why did you put loctite on the threads in the block?......what if you need to remove the studs.....you may damage the threads....

turbotime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">re-torquing them is fine..........but why did you put loctite on the threads in the block?......what if you need to remove the studs.....you may damage the threads....</TD></TR></TABLE>

there are differetn grades of loctite. I tq'd my studs to 85 ft/lbs and never retorqued, ran fine!

sohc_turd

70lbs on D series for me, works great.

TurboGoKart

Same here. No problems yet.

HiProfile

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

there are differetn grades of loctite. I tq'd my studs to 85 ft/lbs and never retorqued, ran fine!</TD></TR></TABLE>

And most grades of loctite that are removable - aren't hi temp either.

ek_chris

should be fine.. but if you want to be ****, sure re-check them

Sketch_hs

I checked mine after 100 miles and the torque was still good, didn't move at all with 70ftlbs torque

rmcdaniels

I always re-torque mine to 75 after a few heat cycles, haven't had any problems with it yet.

adictionbass

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I always re-torque mine to 75 after a few heat cycles, haven't had any problems with it yet.</TD></TR></TABLE>

do they usually get tighter or do you just check them?

Jizzmaster Zero

Does anybody read the instructions that come with ARP head studs?

You do not need to retorque them. Ever. As long as you do it right the first time and make sure you bottom out the studs in the block.

The instructions also say that you may use thread locker to keep them in the block, if you want. Most people do not do this, but it is perfectly fine.

D@nnY

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jizzmaster Zero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does anybody read the instructions that come with ARP head studs?

You do not need to retorque them. Ever. As long as you do it right the first time and make sure you bottom out the studs in the block.

\.</TD></TR></TABLE>

arp instructions and the real world are 2 different things.......

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adictionbass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

do they usually get tighter or do you just check them?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This last time I put a new head on my motor they were fine, but I've had them be a little off before. I just do it to check them. It's probably not strictly necessary, but until someone shows me that it is bad for the motor I'll keep doing it. It only takes a few minutes to re-torque them and set the valve clearances, so why not?

HamiltonRex

Thanks everyone for the info.

I went with 65ft/lbs as per their instructions with the supplied lube, i also used semi-permant blue loctite on the threads.. Just a bit.

I did follow the instructions and bottom the threads out etc..

Only concern for re-torquing is my headgasket, its thicker then most people run. Seems like most of you dont re-torque them, so neither will i. The setup is very mild too.

Thanks guys

adictionbass

65 lbs is definitely on the looser side that i think most people run. I personally have mine at 75.. i know alot of people go to 80 and have heard of a few people running closer to 100.

93LSivic

Couple things. First off, you shouldn't have used thread lock on the studs....either moly lube or engine oil with engine oil requiring a greater torque number.
You should re-torque them, it'll be in your best interest especially with a .071" gasket. The reason you should re-torque them is because of the natural stretch that occurs, normally they will stop stretching after about 7-8 times so keep this in mind. Every time I build a customers engine I will torque the head on and then come back a day later and re-torque, usually the studs will relax to the point of 10 ft/lbs. Then I'll have the customer come back and re-torque again after 1,000 miles or so. To date, I've never had a problem with doing this in my engine and all the ones I've built over the years....also never lost a Cometic hg either which I use in ALL my builds.

EnzoSpeed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93LSivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The reason you should re-torque them is because of the natural stretch that occurs, normally they will stop stretching after about 7-8 times so keep this in mind.</TD></TR></TABLE>


They should NEVER stretch like that. If they do, it means they're ruined. Also, for those of you that are over-torquing them, you're actually decreasing the clamping force.

I don't know why people do weird things with their head studs. All you guys have to do is read through the huge .pdf on the ARP website to understand how the bolts work.

mrbsponge

I called ARP and they told me if i had a selaing issue to " back the nuts off and re tighten them, but dont do it all at once do it one at a time, then retorque them back to 70, but dont overtighten them"

so i asked them this: "what do i do if i build a motor for someone and send it off, or do a simple head gasket or swap? what do i do then? "

ARP said: "put them in the night before, torque them, and then do the above stated process in the morning"


i personally hink this is wack, i mean, i dont want to have to be doing this over and over.

also they said to NOT bottom out the stud

93LSivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EnzoSpeed &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


They should NEVER stretch like that. If they do, it means they're ruined. Also, for those of you that are over-torquing them, you're actually decreasing the clamping force.

I don't know why people do weird things with their head studs. All you guys have to do is read through the huge .pdf on the ARP website to understand how the bolts work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Using your suggestion here is a page from ARP's site This is for rod bolts, but they work on similiar principles. Oh, and check out the FRICTION link and look at what it states in bold print.
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechInstall.html

EnzoSpeed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93LSivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Using your suggestion here is a page from ARP's site This is for rod bolts, but they work on similiar principles. Oh, and check out the FRICTION link and look at what it states in bold print.
http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechInstall.html
</TD></TR></TABLE>


You don't understand what those links are saying. And you don't have to direct me to that site, I've read all that technical info many times before.

Bottom line - THE BOLTS NEVER, EVER STRETCH AFTER THEY'VE BEEN INSTALLED AND SUBJECTED TO HEAT CYCLES. The only time they stretch is while you're physically torquing them down.

A common belief is that you install them and they stretch after you've run the motor a few times. No! They never stretch after the installation! If they do, it means you didn't torque them to the optimal yeild strength to begin with.

Do you guys really think a bolt is going to stretch once you start to use it? If that were the case, we'd all be blowing head gaskets and spinning rod bearings every time we started our motors.

Also, over-torquing them is bad news. The ARP recommended torque specs allow a slight safety margin before you hit the maximum stretch threshold, but that means you can only add a few extra ft-lbs (5-10 should be safe). Those of you adding 15-20 extra ft-lbs are actually decreasing the clamping force by taking the bolt past it's maximum yeild. Well, that is assuming you used proper torquing procedures.


Aside from that, the friction link is, well, irrelevant. That's just a proper torquing procedure when you're using a torque wrench. You don't need to do that if you use the proper stretch gauge (for rod bolts). Since you can't use a stretch gauge on head studs, it is recommended that you tighten/loosen the studs a few times to properly seat them. However, it is NOT done to "pre-stretch" the bolts. They don't work that way!