hey whats up guys? im pretty new in this forum and so faar i been reading a lot of good stuff.. i've tried the search area but no luck so im asking now..

im installing a 92-95 greddy on my 00ex.. im not using either black/blue box. im using a missing link check valves and a vortech FPR... the vortech fpr connects to the vacuum between the manifold and the stock FPR..

here's the question.. where do i connect my Blitz BOV???.... thsi is my first time installing a turbo... me and my friend left it on the shop... i bought the kit used and had to customized a oil fitting, i hope it works.... thanks.. john

 

on your turbo tubing (whatever its called) going into the intake manifold, approximately 12" from the intake manifold should be fine

 

Maybe it's called the upper intercooler pipe. But with the base Greddy kit, there is no intercooler. Hmmm

 

damn, thats a good one, what the hell is it called??

Intake tubing? piping? Pressurized Turbo boost return housing feeding forced air induction?

Boost throat?? hahahaha

oh well


[Modified by greyzone, 11:33 PM 11/9/2001]

 

Grezone, how much boost are you running to get that 210?

 

I was about to ask him the same question. Do you have your bottom end built??? What are your mods? Please share!

 

i think you guys are talkin about the charged pipi, right???? well is there any secific reason for that? thanks

 

I disagree. I The sensor was put in the intake hose to measure the ambient air and the rise in temperature of the incoming air as the engine warmed up. The ECU adjusts the fuel accordingly, i.e. if the air is cold (dense), it adds more fuel, if the air is warm, it leans it out. It was not designed to sense the temp of charged air. Charged air is going to warm up a lot faster than in an N/A intake. What will happen is you will get LESS time of a richer mixture during the first few minutes of operation.
I also think that the logic of putting it in the charge pipe because of the previous proximity of the sensor to the throttle body is flawed. Just after the IAT in the stock air intake was a metal hose that led to the valve cover to recover blowby. Did you also connect your valve cover hose to the charge pipe? I hope not because it goes to the nipple on the new intake piping just behind the new air filter.
Lastly, I think it is very unwise to attempt to put the sensor in any of charge piping because of the risk of introducing a boost leak. That sensor will blow right outta there when the boost is high enough. You would need some sort of sensor mounting flange like the BOV has to make it hold.
Originally, I just left mine hanging there and decided last week to mount it in the hose that connects the air filter to the air intake pipe. If you think about it, it is in the same location of the original sensor, just up from the air filter and measuring the temp of the incoming air. It all depends on what you are trying to position it to - the throttle body or the intake filter. I chose the latter. Here are some photos of mine when it was done. The wire loom just behind the air filter is where the intake sensor is. I drilled a hole into the rubber that was small enough to make the sensor fit very snugly into it. The wire was extended and I covered it with some old loom sheathing.

 

That was running 12psi on the dyno, my mods are as follows:

(8psi daily driver, 11 psi hi boost setting)
–96 EX Coupe 5spd
–1.6L SOHC VTEC D16Y8
–GReddy Turbo w/Blue Box
–GReddy Type S BOV
–GReddy T-31 Intercooler
–GReddy Boost Controller, Profec-B
–GReddy EVO Exhaust
–Gutted Oversize CAT
–Missing Link
–AutoMeter Phantom Boost Gauge
–AutoMeter Phantom Fuel Pres. Gauge
–HKS Turbo Timer
–Holly 255lph in-tank Fuel Pump
–Vortech 10:1 FMU
–A’PEXi V-AFC
–MSD SCI Ignition
–MSD Blaster 3 Coil
–MSD Pro Cap
–MSD Plug Wires
–NuForms Block Guard
–2 Mil Head Gasket (GReddy, of course)
–ARP Head Studs
–NGK BCPR7ES-11 gap @ .32

 

Hey turbod97ex,

What s the benefit of putting that sensor in the intake pipe over just leaving it at ambient air in the engine bay?

Seems like its basically reading the same air regardless. I agree its not good to put it in the cvharge pipe but I dont see the point of putting it in the intake pipe (especilally with all the extra work to get it there) althohg granted it looks good.

 

greyzone what size piping are you running the exhaust? 2.25?

 

ya know, Im not sure...

Its GReddy EVO for the Civic...whatever the size is. I thought it was 2.5 ??

I like it except for that big *** tail pipe coming out the bumper.

It is NICE and QUIET which was my goal

 

Hey greyzone, I put it there because it seemed to me it would be cooler that hanging where it was. I figured cooler = richer and every little bit would help. I left it hanging for a couple of months with no apparent ill effects though.

 

Do you have a GReddy kit with the blue box?? The blue box (I believe) makes it a moot point by tricking the ECU into thinking the engine is cold all the time, hence it runs richer, regardless of the probe. Of course, I am not totally sure on this, but I think thats right...anyone who knows different please correct me.

 

The blue box reads boost by reading the MAP sensor voltage. It sends a modified signal to the ecu so that you don't get a check engine light, just like the old black box did. But the blue box also controls injector pulsewidth based on the amount of boost its reading in order to provide proper fueling, instead of using a boost dependant FPR like the older kits.

Greyzone- You say you're running both, plus a V-AFC. With both a boost dependant FPR and the blue box, it must run super rich in boost- is the V-AFC working well to turn down your fuel? I was wondering if that could be done.

 

I agree that if the blue box works the way that some people say it does, by tricking the ECU into thinking the engine is cold, that the IAT sensor’s location is moot. If that reasoning is correct, tapping into the charge pipe is even more unwise. You might as well just leave it hanging.
To me, this notion of accomplishing fuel management sounds too simplistic of an explanation as to how the blue box works. As I understand it, Greddy had a black box that they shipped with the kit at it's first release and Greddy started shipping the more refined blue box that now comes with the kit. My guess is that the earlier fuel management maybe did what people say about making the ECU think the car is cold but I don’t know for sure. Only an email to Greddy will get the real answer
The logic behind my thinking that the blue box doesn’t accomplish fuel management by simply “making the ECU think the engine is cold” is for a couple of reasons. First of all, on a N/A setup, the amount of fuel during cold start does not sound like an adequate amount of fuel for boosting to 5.5psi. Secondly, of the wires that tap into the ECU wiring loom for the blue box, the IAT sensor is not one of them. This tells me that the IAT still serves a purpose for helping with cold starts. The wires that are tapped into the ECU wiring loom tap into injectors 1-4, the ICM (ignition control module, rpm), the LG1 (logic ground), the PG1 (power ground), IGP1 (power source for the ECU), and then you cut the Map sensor wire to the ECU and route it in to the blue box and then back into the ECU. All of this tells me that Greddy has allowed the map sensor to detect boost, something that Hondata says it can be made to do successfully to 11psi, and, upon seeing what the boost is, the blue box controls the injectors for the correct amount of fuel delivery.

 

Actually, the vortech is getting installed monday and the dyno is wednesday...

right now i just have a NOS fpr on and its running lean at 5 psi with everythin maxed, so the shop said go with vortech 10:1 and im going with their call.

I think with stock injectors and the vafc i should be okay, but ill know for sure wednesday. With the 310s (which im getting soon) i think ill have to go to 8:1. But im trying to get some answers on some stuff about that too in my other post about 310s changing my setup.

Is it true that the GReddy blue box only works up to 9psi? If so, what happens after that?? Im wondering since ive run up to 12psi but i havent expereiced an real problems (except of course my shop now telling me im running to lean to do it safely (14s on the a/f reading, they want 12s)

 

turbod97ex (Steve),
Your web site is great! I copied the directions for the blue box, THANK
YOU. With my setup, i CURRENTLY am using the NOS FPR and when i had it
on the dyno the shop said it was lean at 5 psi. Static FP was set to 55
and it was only going to 60 psi under boost, so they said to get a
vortech 10:1 FMU and ditch the NOS. The vottech will be in and im
installing it monday, then back to the shop (dyno) Wednesday.

Im hoping like a madman that I will be able to get up to 11 or 12 psi
with A/F in the 12s. The really nice part about the VAFC is that I can
fine tune highway crusing speeds to lean out narrow throttle and make it
run smooth as a ddaily driver.

APEXi told me that tha VAFC cant be set much more than 10% enrichment
without throwing a CEL, but Ive set it to 25 and 30% to test it and so
far no CEL, now Im wondering if its hooked up right (shop did the blue
box and the VAFC) but the VAFC seems to be working good. Its backing
fuel out at 3000 and 4000 rpms on the freeway and adjusting the VTEC
engagement point just fine.

Im gonna go out to my car now and see if that blinking light is on the
blue box. It damn well better be!

Ill let you know in a few minutes...BRB

David

 

YES! YES YES!

The happy green light is blinking brightly on my blue box.

Whew. One less thing to trip on.

 

I emailed Greddy about the IAT sensor. This is what they said:
I am not sure what car you are install the kit onto. But the 92-95 Civic EX/Si has the IAT sensor all ready mounted to the intake manifold, so there is not need to relocate it if the kit is used on the correct vehicle. If it is being installed on anything other then the specified vehicle I can not help you. However in our 99-00 Civic Si turbo kit where you do have to relocate the IAT sensor we install it into the air intake pipe. All newer Honda kits only come with our Blue FCU, they do not come with a FMU. A 92-95 Civic is programmed for 5.5psi only.
In other words, it really doesn't matter where you mount it - charge pipe or air intake pipe, whatever is easiest.

 

ok, what does FCU means? and how's this different to FMU...... th eonly thing i have is vortech secondary FPR and a missing link to fool the map sensor... help...

 

FMU, FCU, whatever, I was referring to the blue box and they corrected me and said it is an FCU and not an FMU.

 

icic thanks

 

Nicely done, put it around 12-15 inches away from your Intake Mani, You got the same setup as me, cept im runnin a 1993 Honda Civic Coupe, with a 1995 VTEC motor, vtec head taken off (Too much bypass), bored and resleeved to 1.8SOHC,

Pressin 13 lbs boost, runnin round 230 WHP, with a BLITZ blow off Valve....heeheh

 

So right now you are running around 60 psi fuel pressure without the blue box and its running lean at 5 psi, correct?

I'm running 40 psi fuel pressure with the blue box and at 5.5 and 7 psi on the dyno my a/f ratio was right about 12.5:1.

I believe the blue box can only support 9 psi because the injectors can only be held open for so long at high rpm. With the stock 240 cc/min injectors maxed out on the duty cycle and running at a set fuel pressure of 35-45 psi, they only can flow enough fuel to safely support 9 psi of boost. If you boost higher than that, like you did (12 psi), your a/f ratio will be too lean to be safe.

If you were reading 14s on your a/f, thats a little scary to me. On the dyno at 7 psi, my a/f ratio at the vtec crossover point (4700-5200 rpm) went just a little lean to 13.1:1, and I got pinging right at that point because of it. I believe your 2mm headgasket has given you more room to run lean and still not detonate. I think I'm gonna get one too for safety reasons, I just hope it doesn't kill the bottom end power too much.

Running the 10:1 vortech with the stock injectors and the blue box should make you really rich, and tuning it down with the V-AFC should work great- at least it seems so to me. Of course, running 310's and a 8:1 disk would be better because of the lower fuel pressure you'd be running.

Overall, it sounds good- this is exactly what I was planning on doing to my setup. Definitely keep us posted as to how well it works!!!