819turbo

heres my setup that i'm running right now:
B20b, Ls head, T25, 450cc, 255 pump, intercooler, 2,5" piping, 2,5" downpipe, 2,5" apexi cat back, no cat, uberdata tuned with wideband o2, turbo start bov..@ 8 psi daily driven daily beaten. right now the turbine is too small. It can only give me 5 psi to the redline. So i decided to change turbo: T3 super 60.

since i'm doing all the changes ( new manifold + downpipe....etc), i was thinking of running 10 psi on the same setup + some head studs, rod bolts and a new head gasket. With your experiences, is this possible? will the notorius sleeves hold-up?

****remember that this is NOT run by a FMU, it is run by a reprogrammed ecu using uberdata with a programmer that as proven him self many times before****

thx in advance for your feedback.

819turbo

please help

beerbongskickass

B20 sleeves ******* suck donkey ***** and they will more than likely crack if you turn the boost up.

curiousgpnoy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B20 sleeves ******* suck donkey ***** and they will more than likely crack if you turn the boost up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not necessarily...im running a sc61 turbo @ 16-17 psi daily and have been constantly pounding on my motor for 4 months straight. we looked for races 5-6 nites a week and my car hardly got any rest from boost...i just recently (last month) lost compression in 2nd and 3rd cylindars but it still pulls strong. last time i checked i was at 150-120-90-150 but with those numbers it still pulls on whatever challanges me. for some odd reason i thought my sleeves were gonna be the first to go but i think i just possibly just cracked some ring glands from high speed racing (5th gear boosting). car doesnt pull as strong as it used to but it can still take out its fair share of v8s and just recently put an *** whoopin on modded srt-4s. im not saying its the fastest car in the world by taking out srt-4s because i really dont think they are all that fast but it was just fun if you know what i mean .

but anyways to the point...it all depends on your setup, tune, fuel management and i guess you can throw in "luck"...im running a (bone stock never ripped apart) 1997 B20B 8.8:1. still runs strong but smokes a lot . had a friend tune it before the bad compression and he tried to detune it to save the motor after but i said "**** it" and am still running 16-17psi daily on 1, possibly 2 bad cylindars, and still do not hesitate to run whatever challanges me. when i had it tuned i put down 293whp280tq...right now it feels somewhere around 250-270hp

beerbongskickass

The monolithic design of the b20 sleeves are worthless for boost, that is why they suck. Some people like you have got lucky and never had a problem, but more than likely you will crack sleeves if your putting down a decent amount of power. Good tuning isn't going to save you this time. I know a few people personally that have owned/tuned boosted b20 bottom ends and in there case the cars were tuned perfectly, but still ended up cracking the sleeves.

It's just not worth it to me having to baby your motor. If I ever swapped to a b-series motor (I never will) I would be going for no less than 300whp. That just isn't safe with a stock b20 bottom end.

Mag00n

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by curiousgpnoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

not necessarily...im running a sc61 turbo @ 16-17 psi daily and have been constantly pounding on my motor for 4 months straight. we looked for races 5-6 nites a week and my car hardly got any rest from boost...i just recently (last month) lost compression in 2nd and 3rd cylindars but it still pulls strong. last time i checked i was at 150-120-90-150 but with those numbers it still pulls on whatever challanges me. for some odd reason i thought my sleeves were gonna be the first to go but i think i just possibly just cracked some ring glands from high speed racing (5th gear boosting). car doesnt pull as strong as it used to but it can still take out its fair share of v8s and just recently put an *** whoopin on modded srt-4s. im not saying its the fastest car in the world by taking out srt-4s because i really dont think they are all that fast but it was just fun if you know what i mean .

but anyways to the point...it all depends on your setup, tune, fuel management and i guess you can throw in "luck"...im running a (bone stock never ripped apart) 1997 B20B 8.8:1. still runs strong but smokes a lot . had a friend tune it before the bad compression and he tried to detune it to save the motor after but i said "**** it" and am still running 16-17psi daily on 1, possibly 2 bad cylindars, and still do not hesitate to run whatever challanges me. when i had it tuned i put down 293whp280tq...right now it feels somewhere around 250-270hp

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You 'da man dawgZ

JDMs1eeper

I had a B20 setup from 2002 -to- last month. I ran the **** out of it all motor. (made 149.8 whp , 145ftlbs i/h/e, safc tuned) I prolly ran about 5 bottles of a 65 shot, 50 bottles of a 85 shot and 11 or 12 bottles of a 100shot. I also boosted it on 2 difefrnt turbo kits. the first one was a 14b at 7psi. the second one was 8psi with 10psi every now and thin on a 60-1 sized 70a.r turbo. Beat on it for years with all motor, Nitrous and Boost... always ran it more on the rich side to keep the sleevs a lil cooler. Never smoked. 185 185 184 185 compression checks. Only reason i pulled it was because I have a built LS now so i upgraded. But somehow i feel like the lucky one

B20's if you ask me. Great engine. (my experience and my thoughts)

819turbo

thx alot for your feedback.

does anybody have other input?

you se i heard that the sleeve cranking was usaly cause mostly because it was lean ( tempature rises) and that the real probleme to watche for is the ring lands.

oh yeah an oviusly this setup will be ran on 94 octane pump gas

819turbo

anybody else??

Drag_On

Super 60 at 10 psi is fine. Keep the tune rich enough so that a bad tank of gas wont kill it. Keep the AF in the 11s and go for it.

Whats the absolute worst that could happen? Crack a sleeve. Maybe.. But if you have a swapped, turbo Honda you've got to expect **** to happen.

ek9vboi2

my b20 running strong. no oil buring or nothing. im tuned for 10lbs on a stock motor and use a t3/t04b. spools up just right... won't a t3 super 60 lose power top end?

curiousgpnoy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's just not worth it to me having to baby your motor. If I ever swapped to a b-series motor (I never will) I would be going for no less than 300whp. That just isn't safe with a stock b20 bottom end.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dont think ive ever babied this motor ...what moron would spend all this money to do a swap, boost the motor, and not beat the **** out of it??? i do all of it for the fun of it !!! when i tuned i was only running 14psi and made 293whp280tq...so im guessing when i upped the boost to 16-17psi i should have well been over 300whp. im really not too worried about this block...to me its just all fun and games. besides i already have a temporary setup and when that one goes in this b20 is going straight to GE


a good tip as well...i learned this from my last LS setup...if you have the option set your rev limit/fuel cut up higher so you never hit it...the worst thing to do is get your fuel cut and cracking a sleeve that way. i only rev to 7200-7500 but i have my rev limit/ fuel cut set at 8000 just in case


Modified by curiousgpnoy at 10:48 AM 12/2/2004

Ef-er

good info on this thread
everyone already knows bout bad sleeves, blah blah
but i'd like to see more of the positive results

beerbongskickass

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 819turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you se i heard that the sleeve cranking was usaly cause mostly because it was lean ( tempature rises) and that the real probleme to watche for is the ring lands.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You heard wrong...

The Destroyer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You heard wrong...</TD></TR></TABLE>


Im not trying to call you out or anything, this is just out of curiosity, Have you ever experienced a Turbo B20 yourself?

ek9vboi2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vtaaak y0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Im not trying to call you out or anything, this is just out of curiosity, Have you ever experienced a Turbo B20 yourself?</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol, nice job pointing it out. he has a sohc on boost from what i see in his sig. i, myself have done it and mines running strong. i dont see nothing wrong with it, it runs really good with a gsr tranny, but sometime wish i had an LS tranny or 5th so i can top out my cluster b/c it hits redline too fast around 130mph.

beerbongskickass

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vtaaak y0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Im not trying to call you out or anything, this is just out of curiosity, Have you ever experienced a Turbo B20 yourself?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have never owned a turbo b20, but if I did it wouldn't change anything. A good friend of mine had one though, this is what happened to his...



Here is a little more info on b20 sleeves... http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/jan96a.html

kulangot

i got to vouch for my boy [curious], he always gives that b20 a beatin...that car is insane, cant wait to ride when u get built

JDMs1eeper

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You heard wrong...</TD></TR></TABLE>


errr... dude. B20's arnt the only engine w/ a "weak link" Check recent threads on SOHC turbos. I see 2-3 new posts on blow head gaskets from sleevs distorting underboost. My friend SOHC_Mshue being one of them. Lets try talkin about ways to prevent sleeve failure instead of bashing it and saying its trash. I'm sure you guys are trying to work around this Head Gasket problem just as much as us B20 guys tryin to prevent Sleeve failure.

beerbongskickass

Where not talking about sohc's, but since you asked. I ran about 230whp on my stock d16z6 for about a month and did slightly blow my head gasket or lifted the head, whatever you want to call it. A new OEM head gasket and ARP head studs solved my problem.

Sorry, but I'm not trying to be an *** and bash you b20 turbo guys. If you crack a sleeve, your block is garbage, unless you want to re-sleeve it, that is a fact. You can't change the design of the stock b20 sleeves, so you can't really do anything to solve the problem.

ek9vboi2

go back to ur sohc

curiousgpnoy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where not talking about sohc's, but since you asked. I ran about 230whp on my stock d16z6 for about a month and did slightly blow my head gasket or lifted the head, whatever you want to call it. A new OEM head gasket and ARP head studs solved my problem.

Sorry, but I'm not trying to be an *** and bash you b20 turbo guys. If you crack a sleeve, your block is garbage, unless you want to re-sleeve it, that is a fact. You can't change the design of the stock b20 sleeves, so you can't really do anything to solve the problem. </TD></TR></TABLE>

you only had it running for a month...sucks to hear that ...mine ran for 8 months with me pounding on it 80% of the time. and the funny thing is i bought the motor and never ripped it apart (still even has the factors stickers still on the timing cover). if fact the car is still running now and still beats pretty much anything that pulls up to me ...but it just smokes like a crack ***** who hasnt had any for a while

pretty much any motor can crack a sleeve and by then all motors are pretty much useless until they are re-sleeved.

but anyways (2 thumbs up) for the 230whp on the sohc. very impressive numbers

but to those who are considering boosting their B20 i say go for it...tuned conservatively you should be okay. if it took me 8 months to actually hurt the motor (and with the way i drive thats saying a lot) then you should be okay. keep in mind that i am running a B20B (lower compression than the B20Z).

Torque rules

819turbo

i've been think about that. is the t3 super 60 ganna lose power top end?.

i looked at some compressor map ( im new at this, i can do the matrh and then read them) but compressor maps are not everything. what else can i do the figure out with turbo is better for my application? t3/t4? where do i get maps for those? there are so many possibility on those.

im looking for a pretty quik spool, cuz this is a daily driven, daily beaten ( i run this in winter . i live in quebec, so i get alot of snow......lol.)) but i also want to kick *** on the highway.

kep posting, great thread so far

beerbongskickass

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by curiousgpnoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
you only had it running for a month...sucks to hear that ...mine ran for 8 months with me pounding on it 80% of the time. and the funny thing is i bought the motor and never ripped it apart (still even has the factors stickers still on the timing cover). if fact the car is still running now and still beats pretty much anything that pulls up to me ...but it just smokes like a crack ***** who hasnt had any for a while

pretty much any motor can crack a sleeve and by then all motors are pretty much useless until they are re-sleeved.

but anyways (2 thumbs up) for the 230whp on the sohc. very impressive numbers </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's not what I meant. I was running 230whp (12psi) for a month, but for the other 9 months of me beating on it I was running 215whp (10psi) and it's still running great right now and has been very reliable, I see it running for a lot longer, unless a rods snaps. I also drive my car hard, I see full boost everytime I get it my car. Compression tests have all been good, the last one was 190 across the board.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by curiousgpnoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but to those who are considering boosting their B20 i say go for it...tuned conservatively you should be okay. if it took me 8 months to actually hurt the motor (and with the way i drive thats saying a lot) then you should be okay. keep in mind that i am running a B20B (lower compression than the B20Z).

Torque rules </TD></TR></TABLE>

For those who are considering boosting a b20? Even with good conservative tuning it's not safe to run a good amount of boost. I feel like a broken record here, but did you even read anything I posted? The design of the sleeves are the reason they crack, they are not like other b-series sleeves which can hold a lot of power if tuned well. If your putting down a decent amount of boost on stock b20 sleeves, don't be suprised if they crack even with perfect conservative tuning. You would be much better off with an LS block, but then again you might get lucky with the b20 like some people have...

I mean ****, a B20/Vtec turbo would be great, lots of torque, etc... I would be going for about 300whp out of that setup, but it wouldn't be safe. I'm not doing all that work to run 5 pounds of boost, it's just pointless to me.

ek9vboi2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 819turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i've been think about that. is the t3 super 60 ganna lose power top end?.

i looked at some compressor map ( im new at this, i can do the matrh and then read them) but compressor maps are not everything. what else can i do the figure out with turbo is better for my application? t3/t4? where do i get maps for those? there are so many possibility on those.

im looking for a pretty quik spool, cuz this is a daily driven, daily beaten ( i run this in winter . i live in quebec, so i get alot of snow......lol.)) but i also want to kick *** on the highway.

kep posting, great thread so far </TD></TR></TABLE>

ignore the beerbong guy, think he is drunk. i say if u want to turbo ur b20 let it be. u have it in the car already, so why not?!

as for turbo, a t3 will spool super fast and probably be fully spooled by like 3-4k on a b-series motor. however, it might spool fast and take off faster, but you lose top end. look at SRT-4s, WRX, EVOs, etc... they can pull easily away, but when them high rpms kick in they stop pulling. there turbo is too small.

i have a t3/to4b in my car and it spools at like 3.5k and fully boost at 4k. thats very little boost lag on my b20b. i would like to see how a t3/to4e or even a t3/to4 60-1 would feel on my b20. not to mention the amount of power it puts down. with my turbo i made 250hp and 225tq @ 10lbs. In my opinion that is MAX for my b20 or any other b20. anymore then that us asking for troble. in fact, from research most cars that go over 10lbs on a stock b20 almost has some type of problem.

i forgot what else i was ging to say...