I want to be able to switch between two different tanks of gas, race and pump. Pump being in my oem tank and race being in a fuel cell. Can I do a valve or two near the fuel rail to switch fuel lines and switches to switch fuel pumps and maps?


Eventually I want to do 8 injectors, 2 rails, ect so I can switch on the fly w/o poping the hood.

To some this may sound stupid but I want to be able to drive 100 miles to an event, switch to race gas and no one know. It just seems the cars that are now lining up to race me arrive on trailers rocking cages, bottles and more cylinders and my pump gas limitations just wont cut it anymore.

Please help Thanks

 

Why would you need 8 injectors and 2 rails!!!! Install a secondary smaller tank in your car with its own fuel pump setup, route it to to your main fuel line at any point before the fuel filter. Might be worth having a one way flow valve on each fuel line so fuel flows in one direction only and that is out of the tank or a switching valve so you change between the lines. Its doable as long you got the $$$$

 

Good idea

What about the returns?

 

One option to leave it as it is, since the return line returns the fuel back to the fuel filter. As long as you start the engine for few seconds or minutes before driving or boosting, whatever fuel cell/tank you're using at that moment will wash the remaining fuel that was used before.

I'm assuming whatever EMS you're running will be mapped on both types of fuel and it allows you to load the relevant fuel base map before startup!!

 

I had this EXACT same idea a year or so ago. Just never got around to messing with it.

In for more info.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakuza &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would you need 8 injectors and 2 rails!!!! Install a secondary smaller tank in your car with its own fuel pump setup, route it to to your main fuel line at any point before the fuel filter. Might be worth having a one way flow valve on each fuel line so fuel flows in one direction only and that is out of the tank or a switching valve so you change between the lines. Its doable as long you got the $$$$</TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, no need for 2 rails and 8 injectors. But i dont understand why say you want to be able to do this without popping the hood? If your car is any kind of fast, you will be needing to check oil, plugs, ect, to make sure everything is good to go, before running it. So your hood would still need to be popped at some point while your at the track.

Also im not sure that nhra will like a fuel cell in your trunk without it being sealed off from the driver compartment? (general regulations 1:5) might want to look into that. good luck.

 

I thought the return sent it back to the tank?

I tune it with ectune, it has primary and secondary maps.

I really need this.. and I think it would be a good investment for me considering I to the point already were I need to do this or sump my oem tank and get new lines and pump.. I figured I might as well get a cell and run a secondary fuel setup since my 255 in the oem tank works fine on pump. Plus I hate drainin the tank and don't want to do that infront of people because they will then know exactly whats up, and I can't afford to put say vp import in my tank then take it 100 miles down the interstate to finally get to the race.

 

if u really wanna run the stock tank, and a fuel cell and be able to switch on the fly, it seems like dual fuel rails would prob be just about the simplest way.

just leave the existing fuel rail setup alone, add second rail, plumb feed and return lines from your fuel cell, and then put both the pump from the stock tank, and the pump from the cell on seperate switched 12v sources. then just shut off the intank pump and switch on the pump from the cell, and then switch fuel maps.

other than isolating the cell from the driver, does anyone else see any problems with just doin it like that, or a more simple method?



Modified by JRSC01GS-R at 7:45 PM 9/19/2008

 

The only other thing I could suggest for him if he's willing to sacrifice the boot storage space. Add a 2nd tank and a fuel cell as well then he can connect each tank to the fuel cell with on/off valves. Similar to race spec where the fuel tank feeds the fuel cell via internal pump and then the cell has its own inline pump that feeds the main fuel lines. This way all he has to do is open the trunk, turn one valve off from one tank and turn the other one on from the tank he wants to use plus of course switching the relative tank fuel pump on.

 

we did one in our old shops 86 grand national.

stock tank for pump, and cell for fuel.

same rail and injectors. basically there is a y valve on the feed side and a y valve on the return side.

takes a little bit of plumbing and inginuity.

no need for a second rail and set of injectors.

 

Were would I get these Y valves.. and its a little fuzzy to me how it would return the fuel to the correct tank.

Thanks for your alls time. I will do this. I am looking at a 5 gal alum cell, bosch 44.. I'm unsure about the size of lines and what kind of fuel filter I will need to run and am researching that. The fuel cell I am looking at has 2 8ans built into the sump. Its on ebay for around $90

Any help is very appreciated. DK

 

you need a y valve on the feed, and a y valve on the return side.

you may not be able to get them from jegs, maybe parker or some other kind of fluig control like a hydraulics shop.

 

or use these with a y block:
http://www.jegs.com/p/Earl%27s/761341/10002/-1

 

So basicly...I would need
2 - Y valves [one for feed, one for return]
Or
4 Fuel shutoff valves and 2 Y blocks [2 for feed, 2 for return]

I'd like to find the Y valves and I'm searching..

I am also searching the the line size requirements vs hp needed... I think jeff evans did a write up on that.. I would like to build the race gas fuel setup to support 700hp. My goals right now are to max out a 35r then step up to a borg warner turbo later on.

I'm getting closer and I really don't see it being a whole lot more costly that sumping my oem tank and upgrading its fuel setup as opposed to just adding another and using both separating the octane.


Thats the fuel cell I am looking at, what do you all think?

 

i say just run pump gas with math/water injection that kicks in on high/ full boost.

 

I will prob run meth when I'm on pump gas

but I still want to do a fuel cell for the race gas..


What about this.. A one gallon fuel cell mounted as far forward as possible, under the hood, in front of the tire, ect..

I could use this, It could simplify things and also venting the fuel cell would be easier.

This way I just have to pop the hood to either fill the race gas cell up or switch the valves for the fuel systems.

This fuel cell is designed for 'nitrous enrichment' but I really think it will work just fine for what I need. I do kind of wonder if I would run into fuel starvation problems with with it being so small.

I do also realize that its probably against the law to have a fuel cell in the engine bay but really I live in a small town no one would ever say a word or understand what it is. I just wonder how much of a hazard it will actually be and if saving a few hundred dollars of lines and if the weight savings would actually be worth it.


Modified by Boosted_B_Series at 6:23 PM 9/21/2008

 

I don't think you need any type of valve on the feed side, just a T to each pump. Fuel pumps have internal check valves to preserve pressure when off, so the pressure in the line shouldn't be able to flow back through whatever pump is off.
As far as the return, you would need a "Y" valve or a T with an on/off valve in each separate return to each tank, to direct the fuel where you want it to go.
So all you'd have to do is flip a switch to send the power from the oem tank fuel pump to the other pump, (relay inline with the oem pump going out to both pumps) and switch the return valve (s).
If you forgot to switch the return valves, you'd end up diluting your race gas into you pump gas or vice versa..maybe that valve could be electrically controlled, connected to the pump switch wiring. Probably a little more complicated than necessary though.


p.s Don't put a fuel tank in the engine compartment..engine bay crispiness/toastiness is never a good thing.

 

Good point..
I just wonder if I don't use valves on the feed lines if one is pressurized and the other one isnt, wont the fuel in the other feed line be diluted up to the pump by the other one? It seems to me that it would take a while for the engine to use up all the fuel in a 8an line the length of the car.

I could probably eliminate the feed valves with check valves for sure. Anyone know were I can buy fuel check valves. I am searching now..

Edit: I found some aeromotive one way valves but they are $70 each.. ouch

Were would I plum the return? In the bottom or top of the fuel cell? I plan on running a 8an feed and a 6an return.

Would 8an to pump and 8an to rail be ok? I normally see people run a little larger from tank to pump but I really don't have that option unless I want to daisy chain the two 8ans comming out of the cell and run my return to the top.

 

I found this for $102

Its a 3 way safety fuel shut off valve
http://www.jegs.com/i/Barry%20...02/-1

If anyone knows of anything cheaper that would be great.

I could put this on my return lines and now to just figure out the feed line deal.

 

So, you'll be running a 255 hp Walbro in the tank, on 91 octane. And to the Fuel Cell, you'll be running a a1000 on race gas??

 

Yes, Walbro 255 for 93 octane, Bosch 44 for 110 pump, c116/q116, and vp import

 

Will the Bosch 044 be good for up to 700whp?? Or whats your hp goal on Race gas?

 

I do not know, I am hoping.

I am expecting 600-650hp 35r sleeved setup

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boosted_B_Series &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I do not know, I am hoping.

I am expecting 600-650hp 35r sleeved setup</TD></TR></TABLE>

I highly doubt the Bosch 044 will support 600WHP+. Everyone doing about 580WHP+ are either running the a1000 or the Dual wallbro 255 HP pumps. Im not sure if the Dual wallbro kit can be adapted to the fuel cell. Im sure the a1000 would be the easier option.

 

I made 650WHP on bosch 044 pump. I also have dual bosch setup for sale which might work well for your setup.