xenocron i promised i was gonna go back after the second time when i got back from vacation but i never did and im sorry i was just unemployed and the car was running fine until last week but ill be back very soon after i get it assembled. im gonna take pictures of every piston and its cylinder sleeve and the combustion chamber. with the rod bearings i put new honda bearing only in the piston 1,2,3 because i saw the color was clearly green. and on the 4th piston i didnt know if it was brown or black so i reused it. now they are going back in cause they are in good condition from what i see and low millage (except 4) almost 190k on it. oh and im using aem wideband to monitor my afr.

 

Nah, my first instinct is to get all of the facts...

I get two or three phone calls a day from people who have just been tuned by someone else with questions and I do my very best not to throw my comrades under the bus unless there is blatant irresponsibility, and even then...

Two weeks ago I retuned a full blown track car that someone else had tuned previously (and blown up)...I puked in my mouth a little when I saw the maps, but retuned the car and the customer told me he was happy. A week later I get an email from the customer asking me to write a letter indicating the old tune was crap and that I fixed it so he could dispute charges against his old tuner (who he said he went to for years)...I declined.

The tuner is always the last to get his hands on the car and the first to be blamed if a problem happens...I fight my *** off to always make the customer happy, I dont need to fight with other tuners on my abilities to map a car or their lack of abilities to do the same.

The customer is most important...

 

no worries buddy, we'll get it figured out

 

that is so thoughtful XENO, ppl always blame the tuner, my motor had 300,000 on it and oil leaks everywhere(my fault, but the motor was old). motor was unhealthy , but i still went ahead and installed a turbo kit and got it tuned, car started acting fishy bucking and what not, ppl started asking me where was my car? I always responded it was down or hurt. decided to pull it apart and my ringlands were cracked, well turned out my ecu was failing, but everytime i went to explain to ppl it was like i was covering my mouth, they were yelling "thats why i dont go to that tuner" "he blows **** up".. well technically i hurt the motor beating on it day and night, but i sucked it up built my bottom end and now im overly satisfied..

 

omgz luuk at the detonation, take tu nu tunerz plox

 

here are some pictures for you guys to see what im working with. this was before i honed the cylinders.
#3

#4

pistons go in order left 4,3,2,1

 

msd wires? there's the problem

clocking of the rings on installation?
what where the end gaps on the rings?
letting it warm up before beating on it?

 

I previously had a blaster msd setup on my car and it hated the boost. youre better off with a stock dizzy.

 

what do you guys think im running. i have a stock distributor but im using msd wires thats it theres no other msd product on my car. i have the service manual by acura so ive been doing what the end ring position are pictured on the page. and this is what ive been doing



but then i looked around and saw this picture which is completely different then the what the service manual has been telling me. so who is right.

http://www.team-integra.net/sections...4bb0768c9d.jpg

 

My first thought... With any rebuild with over 100k miles on it, all the bore specs should be measured. In the pics the op put up, there is quite a bit of scoring on the bores. The block may have been past the point of a simple hone job to clean up the surface.
Was anything measured?
Checked for roundness?
Piston to wall clearance measured?
The new piston may not have been within specs for your used block.
Were the rings sized and oriented correctly?
Piston rings themselves arent meant to support the pressure of combustion, they are supposed to work together with the piston, when at operating temp, to form a better seal.
If the bore was out of round or worn to the point of excessive piston to wall clearance, this may happen due to higher stress on rings and ringlands.
Im no professional tuner/ engine builder, This is just my .02 cents

 

change the tuner! kidding...
chris knows what he's doing.

have you even considered going forged? maybe your cast pistons are not holding up to the heat/power.

 

Not to jack this thread but Chris is a Great guy and a great tuner. I've loved how my car drove after he tuned it... And I'm gonna be bringing my next project to him. So it's deff got to be a mechanical problem not the tune or tuner.

 

i already know its a mechanical problem but what the hell is it. should i just get a ls crank and rods and take my block to a machine shop?

 

He might be able to tune but he is not a great guy. Anyone who acually knows him knows he loves money more then friends.

 

I'm no tuner but i'll toss a couple ideas out there: Could there be a cooling issue? You mentioned it was only a problem on cylinders 3 and 4. From my understanding those are the first to fall victim to overheating.

And the other idea is pretty far out there but i'll mention anyway: Twisted crank? That could throw the ignition timing off to just those 2 cylinders, but i've never heard of it in a honda. It would be easy enough to check with a dial indicator and a degree wheel.

 

I know a lot of people like that, that alone doesn't mean they're not good guys.

 

Have to agree with that. A man that runs a business as a livelyhood has to put his business first, to make a living and support himself. Sometimes business is just business. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

 

I agree but theres a point were it just makes you greedy. If you are underhanded and go back on your word, out and out lie, you are not a good guy. I will never give Chris (bernie maddoff Jr.) a penny of my money again.

 

maybe its time for forged pistons...ring lands go out on oem cast pistons...just spend the money on je or cp...

 

I agee with above posts. Business is business and in business you cant always make everyone happy. Highroller54 I dont know what went on between you and him so i cant talk for your experiences but from my own experiences He hooked me up and did exactly what he promised to do and did it well.... As for the OP yes i'de deff send it to a machine shop and have them check the cylindar walls atleast and also as above post spend the cash and get forged pistons and make sure all measurements are 100%

 

OP,

Rebuild this engine complete. As in, go up to 81.5 mm pistons, fresh bore and hone. I've seen this happen on a turbo motor where the pistons and ring were replaced on the motor with the original bores. It turns out the bores were out of spec and there was significant blow by. Also, did this motor ever over heat or push coolant?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenocron

Nah, my first instinct is to get all of the facts...

I can relate to this completely. It's pretty obvious that one needs to consider the overall body of work and experience level when choosing a tuner.

As for what happened in this case, it's a tough call. Over the years I have had a few cases where this same type of frustrating scenario keeps occuring to the same customer, despite taking precautions like flowing the injectors, giving a larger buffer in the tune, etc.

The only constants I have found in these cases is that they were always engines that we did not build ourselves in-house, and that it would happen repeatedly to the same guys.

We have no idea what was done during the engine build/rebuild, or what happens once the car leaves. Time for some fun hypotheticals:

It could be beaten on when cold. The boost could've been turned up. The thermostat could've gone bad. A different batch of gas may have been a culprit. A fuel pump or filter could be having issues. The dizzy could be heavily worn and have a lot of timing wander. There could be intermittent wiring issues. A cam gear might've slipped. They might have an improper cover on the bottom of the ecu that causes shorting issues on the circuit board when a pasenger gets in and stomps on it. They might have water coming in the car near the ecu causing issues. They might've pulled the map and messed with it and unknowingly made an unsafe change, and then put the original map back in it before bringing the car back to you. They might've let a friend borrow the car and put in lower octane fuel without their knowledge. They might have a habit of running the car to the limiter in top gear on a stock radiator, etc, etc...

Point is, when it has been tuned by an experienced and knowledgable tuner with a good track record, and it happens to the same individual over and over, logic points to one of these type of scenarios coming into play.

 

^^ exactly.

 

James knows his stuff and speaks the truth. I had a similar issue with a motor of mine he tried helping me out but we never came to a conclusion or figured out the problem. I figured it was the cheap pistons the machine shop kept giving me cause I KNOW my tune was done correctly as well as assembly and proper warmup/cool off periods. I babied my motor (except on-ramps) and it still **** on me.

OP I would stop beating yourself up over the issue, it happens and in this case seems like it will continue to happen. Boosted cars are strange creatures. If you have he cash get something forged and be done with it.

 

have a nice day