ntensehonda

I am thinking pretty heavily about adding this to my 94 del Sol VTEC. I like the kit and all that it has to offer, but I wanted the opinions of those that have owned one, or know someone who has.

Just curious as to how you guys look at this kit.

PS I am planning on the aftercooled kit,BTW.

later.

vtecvoodoo

Try a search. Most of the members will advise you to buy a turbo kit instead.

Ryan

sivicman

Unfortunately your on the wrong forum for anything positive about the Vortech here, try Club Si "Got Boost". Everyone hear will tell you to go turbo. I'm having a Vortech put on my '00 Si in Jan.

tony1

Ok, since people here say go turbo you should go to a forum where people say go vortech. What kind of logic is that?

There is a reason everyone goes turbo, the vortech can't compare in any aspect. There are a lot more educated opinions on here than on club si, trust me.

For people who like the vortech kit, i'm curious, what are your reasons?

eg2turbo

I agree with tony...the vortech is good for domestics that already make lots of low end torque and can take the strain of an SC. the 4 cyli honda engines dont take well to the added strain from being belt driven, and the impressive peak power doesn't happen until redline. If you not making all of your power until redline, whats the point in having it?

JPowers

Although I've never ridden in or driven a Vortech powered Honda. I came very close to buying this kit, but changed my mind after seeing the struggles of this guy (I'm not going to give his name) over at (changed my mind...not going to give the website either). First of all, this guy is obviously sponsored by Vortech, so I don't take his opinion seriously. According to him, Vortech is god. For months he's been pouring money into his car to make it faster. For the longest time he could barely break into 13s. Bullshit excuses flowed! Now he's got 330 hp and barely hits a 12.8 and created a post saying everyone should eat crow for this accomplishment. Even the model that Car and Driver tested with 277whp only hit high 14s. Don't get me wrong, 12.8 is a fantastic street car, but the same amount of money (without the sponsorship) invested in a turbo would have created a phenomenal street car. The Vortech is good for the domestic V8s it was created for. The Vortech takes one of the worst traits of turbo (lag) and combines it with the typical drivetrain power loss of a supercharger, combined with an inability to adjust boost without changing pulleys. What's the point? It looks pretty, though! If you want a supercharger, get the Jackson Racing. If you eventually plan on making more power than the JR can provide, get a turbo! If you want to brag about horsepower figures, get the Vortech.

tony1

I agree with you completely on everything except "if you want to brag about horsepower figures, get the vortech".

If you really want to brag about hp figures, get the turbo!!
If you want to throw your money away and try to convince yourself that you made the right decision, get the vortech.

Speedworks801

The Vortech, like any centrifugal supercharger has low exit temps and can produce high boost levels. The downside to any centrifugal supercharger is the peak boost is only reached at redline. These things run on an overdrive ratio of like 4to 1. i.e. they make 1/4th of peak boost at 1/2 of redline. On a honda with such a wide rev range they are not practical, as the average hp number can be low compared to any other form of forced induction.

Centrifugal superchargers are belt-driven turbos (if you will). The hp required to drive them at high boost pressures, makes them a second or even third choice to turbo charging and roots style blowers.

JPowers

What I meant by that is, Vortech's main selling point is their questionable advertised horsepower gains. A 117 hp instant bolt on really catches your eye unless you read the fine print.

CRVRX

No one has mentioned the noise they make. I work with some one that puts them on V8 s all the time , there is an Q trim which makes a little noise then an S trim which sounds like a tonado comming with no oil in it.
For all that noise I would want to some big power for having to listen to it everyday.

Speedworks801

They are actually not too loud on a honda. The blower is pretty quiet. THe exhaust is hellatious!

senpai

The one I ran into the the street did made noise at idle. Turbos sound stock at idle (most of them )

sivicman

tony1, how much power do you think your going to make with a $3K Greddy kit w/o intercooler, add another $900 for one, on a B16A engine with stock internals? Honda Tuning Feb/Mar '02 got 217 @ the flywheel according to Greddy. My $4K is on a Vortech with 117hp @ the wheels.

double0Si

JPowers - That guy over at the "other site" is not sponsored by anybody, and if you had been following his story you would know that had a turbo before he switched to the VSC. You would also know that he has had far less troubles with the VSC than he did with the turbo.
Secondly there is no lag with the VSC.


I have, drive, and love my VSC; however I will agree for the most power output, turbo is the way to go. And my next project car will be a turbo.

Tru Dynamix

sivicman

u have to understand that 117whp is only reached near redline..which dont mean sh*t..since vtec engines are usually high revving, it means u spend a LOT of time away from redline..

and the greddy turbo kit is RETAILED at $3000 with a $900 IC. i would go custom and get everything done for $2500 (WITH IC) and run maybe 60whp gain..and trust me, i would much rather take that 60whp from a turbo kit than your 117whp from the vortech.

and if u wanna talk about speed from a turbo kit, please dont bring greddy up. Greddy is make for RELIABILITY. while kits like DRAG and REVHARD, etc are meant for SPPPPPEEEEDDDDD...

but in the mean time, go spend that $3000 on a vortech with aftercooler (for your 117whp) on your SI or GSR and race ANY SI or GSR with a DRAG kit. my bet is on the DRAG turbo car

but its your money..if vortech makes u happy, go vortech..im just going turbo for my own enjoyment


[Modified by Tru Dynamix, 11:27 PM 12/11/2002]

SEFIxCivic

No offense to "that guy" but he isn't a very mechanically inclined person. but he does have a lot of heart for racing though.

tony1

Are you kidding me??? The vortech has more lag than a T88! You will get 8psi out of T88 at an earlier rpm than with the vortech. Vortech is the KING of lag...

philo

If you want instant power at all RPMs and a flat torque curve go roots type blower.

If you want snap-ya-head-back power, go turbo.

IMO: a cetrifugal blower has worst of both and best of neither.

falcongsr

i dunno you can get nice torque everywhere and more power than a roots with a greddy turbo kit. especially once the exhaust is opened up. really spools quick as soon as you open the throttle.

double0Si

King of lag??? hahaha... OK whatever.

tony1

How can you even question this, it's a fact. In fact, it never actually hits full boost. If you rev it higher it will boost more. "Full" boost with this setup is determined by max rpm. "lag" is considered the amount of time it takes to hit full boost. I would say they lag pretty bad...

ntensehonda

I was wanting the VSC because the JRSC is junk, and the VSC is so upgradable it's not even funny. I know that it doesn't have any lag because I have ridden in a car with one. It's insane the amount of instant power that this kit provides. I would do a tubo if I didn't already have a 5 Zigen header on the car. Too much money there to throw away. Plus, I just like the thought of a SC over a Turbo. Everyone around here has a damn turbo Honda, even the SOHC cars. I want to be more unique than that AND stomp the competition into the ground.

PS after some time, I am going to build the motor to hell and back, and then upgrade the fuel and pully, to make more power and torque. I need some time to get used to the SC itself first.

dbman96

You'll certainly be more unique, but you will definitely NOT stomp the competition into the ground. That's what everyone is trying to say... for the same investment in either direction, the VSC will NOT produce better gains than a comparable turbo setup. Even with slightly higher peak HP gains, the VSC usually doesn't make ANY more than stock hp until above 4000 RPM. If your mind is made up, why bother asking experienced people for opinions?

MayhemSi

Lets see. To make more boost on a VSC you have to swap out the pulley, get a different belt probably, and pray to god that shaft setup stays together as you overrev the poor sc. To turn up boost in my turbo car, I reach down and twist the **** on my Profec B. I think my method is a bit easier. You may have a slight problem stomping all those turbo hondas into the ground as well.

ntensehonda

OK,OK...I didn't mean to make waves, here. I basically wanted an overall view...There is one person here who likes the VSC, the others like JRSC, or turbo. I understand your views on the turbo...I was simply trying to get an idea about reliability, etc. I understand that for the money, I could have a serious turbo setup...but I am talking about a stcok motor, too. I wasn't looking to have to upgrade my fuel,etc. just yet. I know that the VSC works on a stock motor, and will churn out some impressive numbers. I know that the torque is instant, and I know that the VSC is reliable.

If I were to do a turbo, let's say, what would I want to do that is going to be reliable, upgradable, and affordable. I don't care about kits, although they are a good place to start....well, what I should say is, I don't mind piecing things together. I am a mechanic by trade, so that stuff doesn't bother me, but I do care about having this car, motor included, for a while, and I don't want to blow the damn thing up.

So, with that said, what would you, the "experienced people"(no offense intended) suggest I do. The car does have it's stock B16A3 with very close to 89000 on the clock. Be serious, here, I don't want any goofballs saying "get a B18c5" out of the gate or anything. I want to keep the B16 as is for a while. I was planning on doing this in steps
1. FI
2. Headwork(fuel included at this point)
3. Rebuild the bottom end


Let me know, guys...