oil restrictor placement?
12-05-2007, 10:27 PM
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oil restrictor placement?
hey guys i was going to run an oil sandwich adapter with my turbo install and i wanted to run my restrictor right after the adapter but my friend says it will lose its function being that far away from the turbo....is this true?>
12-06-2007, 12:04 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (JDMeg95)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMeg95 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey guys i was going to run an oil sandwich adapter with my turbo install and i wanted to run my restrictor right after the adapter but my friend says it will lose its function being that far away from the turbo....is this true?></TD></TR></TABLE>
Not sure, but maybe you want to test the oil pressure at the end of the feed before and after the installation of the adaptor? If its less then forget about the oil restrictor. Also depending on the turbo you running, if its journal bearings then you don't need an oil restrictor.
Not sure, but maybe you want to test the oil pressure at the end of the feed before and after the installation of the adaptor? If its less then forget about the oil restrictor. Also depending on the turbo you running, if its journal bearings then you don't need an oil restrictor.
12-06-2007, 06:22 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (HarfordCTR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HarfordCTR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is this true? Do you not need a restrictor if its journal bearings?</TD></TR></TABLE>
It depends upon the feed line used, as well as the size of the turbo internal shaft. It's not a 'one or all' scenario. If you have your typical T3/T4 journal bearing with a stage III wheel or smaller, on hondas (which love oil pressure), a -3An sized line typically does not need a restrictor. If you have a -4AN, you may need one. do not put the restrictor at your sandwich plate. And as posted above, when you're not sure, check oil pressure at both areas before even putting the turbo on.
It depends upon the feed line used, as well as the size of the turbo internal shaft. It's not a 'one or all' scenario. If you have your typical T3/T4 journal bearing with a stage III wheel or smaller, on hondas (which love oil pressure), a -3An sized line typically does not need a restrictor. If you have a -4AN, you may need one. do not put the restrictor at your sandwich plate. And as posted above, when you're not sure, check oil pressure at both areas before even putting the turbo on.
12-06-2007, 07:20 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (JDMeg95)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMeg95 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but my friend says it will lose its function being that far away from the turbo....is this true?></TD></TR></TABLE>
Yup, with it being so far away it will lose its function. It will also take a while for oil to reach to the turbo and fill up the oil line upon cold start because of the restrictor.
You want the restrictor closer to the turbo, but I had no problems running it 5-6" away from the turbo.
Yup, with it being so far away it will lose its function. It will also take a while for oil to reach to the turbo and fill up the oil line upon cold start because of the restrictor.
You want the restrictor closer to the turbo, but I had no problems running it 5-6" away from the turbo.
12-06-2007, 07:36 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (Tony the Tiger)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tony the Tiger »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Yup, with it being so far away it will lose its function. It will also take a while for oil to reach to the turbo and fill up the oil line upon cold start because of the restrictor.
You want the restrictor closer to the turbo, but I had no problems running it 5-6" away from the turbo. </TD></TR></TABLE>
why exactly would it lose its function? that doesnt make any sence
on sentra diesels their alternators require an ioil feed... guess where the restrictor is? directly at the source, not at the alt...
FYI, i run a pipe shut off valve at my T, and run a 1/16th restrictor at my turbo.
Yup, with it being so far away it will lose its function. It will also take a while for oil to reach to the turbo and fill up the oil line upon cold start because of the restrictor.
You want the restrictor closer to the turbo, but I had no problems running it 5-6" away from the turbo. </TD></TR></TABLE>
why exactly would it lose its function? that doesnt make any sence
on sentra diesels their alternators require an ioil feed... guess where the restrictor is? directly at the source, not at the alt...
FYI, i run a pipe shut off valve at my T, and run a 1/16th restrictor at my turbo.
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12-06-2007, 08:17 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (93CX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93CX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theres no reason not to run one, especially with journal bearings. Garrett BB turbos have a restrictor built in.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Garrett's do have them built in, BUT you also have to run another restrictor prior to the internal one, believe .035 is the size I run.
Garrett's do have them built in, BUT you also have to run another restrictor prior to the internal one, believe .035 is the size I run.
12-06-2007, 09:48 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (TheShodan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do not put the restrictor at your sandwich plate.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have mine at that side of my line, and the turbos I've used are fine. You can't compress fluids, meaning the restrictor can be anywhere in the line. I know you'll see some pressure drop from fittings and such, but its also a low amount of oil moving through teflon-lined hose. As for lacking oil on startup, the oil will shoot through easily when it sees 80psi at the restrictor. You also won't loose all the oil in the lines, or in the turbo.
I have mine at that side of my line, and the turbos I've used are fine. You can't compress fluids, meaning the restrictor can be anywhere in the line. I know you'll see some pressure drop from fittings and such, but its also a low amount of oil moving through teflon-lined hose. As for lacking oil on startup, the oil will shoot through easily when it sees 80psi at the restrictor. You also won't loose all the oil in the lines, or in the turbo.
12-06-2007, 11:01 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (93CX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93CX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Theres no reason not to run one, especially with journal bearings. Garrett BB turbos have a restrictor built in.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There's plenty of reason NOT to run one, but you must look at it at a case by case basis based upon the oil pressure of the application, the hardware used, the SIZE of the restrictor, and the Type of turbo used. Too many customers who have started their setups have come to me for years with turbos to rebuild only to find that it was their OWN fault in not researching the application or simply even looking at the specs card that comes in every garrett and borg-warner that SHOWS what the oil pressure should be at the turbo. They will use restrictors that are too small, (because they didn't measure the apeture), or use too big of a restrictor and and change their hardware, like from a -3AN to a -4AN. Or even worse, they'll compare their application to someone else's engine platform. For example, DSMs typically use the head as a oil source for Big16g upgrades using Mitsu cartridges because they know that they are both water-oil cooled, and that the cartridge doesn't require that much oil. When those same people switch to a Garrett, or garrett hybrid, they change their hardware COMPLETELY, and tap the oil from the back of the block at the oil filter housing. Why, because Garrett cartridges are a bit more sensitive to oil pressure. Not only that, but they will typically run a -4AN, because they know that oil pressure on the part of the 4g63 is a bit lower than a honda, so they use something larger.
On Ball-bearing cartridges, they are even MORE sensitive because they only require a MISTING of oil, due to its design. This is why the SIZE of any restrictor is just as important as to whether or not to have one at all. This is why .035" is the best one to use on a honda, because w/ a -3AN line, it keeps the oil pressure CONSISTENT, not just enough pressure. 22psi of oil pressure is what is used on ball-bearing medium framed turbos.
All this is really to say that using a restrictor should be APPLICATION BASED, and not simply an assumption. Too many have ruined brand new units because they have become almost overly-concerned, and didn't take the time to research their application or similar to see if the restrictor is needed. This is why it is important to inform people of WHICH turbo you are using.
There's plenty of reason NOT to run one, but you must look at it at a case by case basis based upon the oil pressure of the application, the hardware used, the SIZE of the restrictor, and the Type of turbo used. Too many customers who have started their setups have come to me for years with turbos to rebuild only to find that it was their OWN fault in not researching the application or simply even looking at the specs card that comes in every garrett and borg-warner that SHOWS what the oil pressure should be at the turbo. They will use restrictors that are too small, (because they didn't measure the apeture), or use too big of a restrictor and and change their hardware, like from a -3AN to a -4AN. Or even worse, they'll compare their application to someone else's engine platform. For example, DSMs typically use the head as a oil source for Big16g upgrades using Mitsu cartridges because they know that they are both water-oil cooled, and that the cartridge doesn't require that much oil. When those same people switch to a Garrett, or garrett hybrid, they change their hardware COMPLETELY, and tap the oil from the back of the block at the oil filter housing. Why, because Garrett cartridges are a bit more sensitive to oil pressure. Not only that, but they will typically run a -4AN, because they know that oil pressure on the part of the 4g63 is a bit lower than a honda, so they use something larger.
On Ball-bearing cartridges, they are even MORE sensitive because they only require a MISTING of oil, due to its design. This is why the SIZE of any restrictor is just as important as to whether or not to have one at all. This is why .035" is the best one to use on a honda, because w/ a -3AN line, it keeps the oil pressure CONSISTENT, not just enough pressure. 22psi of oil pressure is what is used on ball-bearing medium framed turbos.
All this is really to say that using a restrictor should be APPLICATION BASED, and not simply an assumption. Too many have ruined brand new units because they have become almost overly-concerned, and didn't take the time to research their application or similar to see if the restrictor is needed. This is why it is important to inform people of WHICH turbo you are using.
12-06-2007, 11:48 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (TheShodan)
This is about placement not necessity:
The short of it is: If you put the restrictor too far away, it will not be squirting into the turbo but slowly dripping in. This is NOT good for a journal-type bearing turbo as they require a fair amount of oil to keep lubercated and a film of oil protecting the bearings. Lets say you start climbing a hill, yout turbo is working hard, and since the restrictor is soo far away, it takes an exponential amount more time to just _fill the hose_ before the oil even gets to the turbo.
The restrictor also acts like an oil jet shooting it into the turbo as the oil would without.
So; if you have one of those plastic handle or big adjustable ones; you are risking alot.
Ball bearing turbos do require a restrictor because they have delicate seals that are easily damaged by too much oil pressure.
My car was seeing 100+PSI cold, and 80PSI hot before the turbo. Now with the turbo and no restrictor; 80-100PSI cold, and 60-80 hot; of-course, idle pressure never drops below 25.
The short of it is: If you put the restrictor too far away, it will not be squirting into the turbo but slowly dripping in. This is NOT good for a journal-type bearing turbo as they require a fair amount of oil to keep lubercated and a film of oil protecting the bearings. Lets say you start climbing a hill, yout turbo is working hard, and since the restrictor is soo far away, it takes an exponential amount more time to just _fill the hose_ before the oil even gets to the turbo.
The restrictor also acts like an oil jet shooting it into the turbo as the oil would without.
So; if you have one of those plastic handle or big adjustable ones; you are risking alot.
Ball bearing turbos do require a restrictor because they have delicate seals that are easily damaged by too much oil pressure.
My car was seeing 100+PSI cold, and 80PSI hot before the turbo. Now with the turbo and no restrictor; 80-100PSI cold, and 60-80 hot; of-course, idle pressure never drops below 25.
12-06-2007, 12:21 PM
#12
Re: oil restrictor placement? (HarfordCTR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMeg95 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey guys i was going to run an oil sandwich adapter with my turbo install and i wanted to run my restrictor right after the adapter but my friend says it will lose its function being that far away from the turbo....is this true?></TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HarfordCTR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is this true? Do you not need a restrictor if its journal bearings?</TD></TR></TABLE>
This was a question from several people about necessity AND placement. The restrictor CAN act as a jet, but if not the right size, it can act in the opposite and not have enough oil to the system as well.
I agree with your statement about its purpose, but its not simply a Yes-ALL the time or NO-None of the time situation.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HarfordCTR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is this true? Do you not need a restrictor if its journal bearings?</TD></TR></TABLE>
This was a question from several people about necessity AND placement. The restrictor CAN act as a jet, but if not the right size, it can act in the opposite and not have enough oil to the system as well.
I agree with your statement about its purpose, but its not simply a Yes-ALL the time or NO-None of the time situation.
12-06-2007, 05:15 PM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (TheShodan)
Like said, it depends on application, type of turbo and size of feed.
I got the Goodridge kit along with my Garrett T3/T4 turbo and specificly asked the supplier if I needed a restrictor with this setup and was told its not needed. Mine is exactly as the picture below except the NPT fittings are in black.
I got the Goodridge kit along with my Garrett T3/T4 turbo and specificly asked the supplier if I needed a restrictor with this setup and was told its not needed. Mine is exactly as the picture below except the NPT fittings are in black.
12-06-2007, 05:40 PM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (TheShodan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
All this is really to say that using a restrictor should be APPLICATION BASED, and not simply an assumption. Too many have ruined brand new units because they have become almost overly-concerned, and didn't take the time to research their application or similar to see if the restrictor is needed. This is why it is important to inform people of WHICH turbo you are using.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Can you break it down more, as in turbo based @ a standard honda oil press. with what should make oil pressure to the specific turbo (manufacture/frame size)
ie:
14b with a 3an line a .XXX restrictor at the turbo, should result in xx psi oil press @ the turbo.
garret small frame turbos with a 3an line with a .xxx restrictor at the block should result in xx psi @ the turbo.
....etc
This is just a very common question and not many people can say when or where to use one, and someone of your experience could really help end "what size restrictor" threads.
Of couse a basic guideline
Personally i run an sc61 and would like to know if i should be runing a restrictor and if i can run it at the block or at the turbo, and if so what size .060", .080" considering stock honda oil pressure?
All this is really to say that using a restrictor should be APPLICATION BASED, and not simply an assumption. Too many have ruined brand new units because they have become almost overly-concerned, and didn't take the time to research their application or similar to see if the restrictor is needed. This is why it is important to inform people of WHICH turbo you are using.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Can you break it down more, as in turbo based @ a standard honda oil press. with what should make oil pressure to the specific turbo (manufacture/frame size)
ie:
14b with a 3an line a .XXX restrictor at the turbo, should result in xx psi oil press @ the turbo.
garret small frame turbos with a 3an line with a .xxx restrictor at the block should result in xx psi @ the turbo.
....etc
This is just a very common question and not many people can say when or where to use one, and someone of your experience could really help end "what size restrictor" threads.
Of couse a basic guideline
Personally i run an sc61 and would like to know if i should be runing a restrictor and if i can run it at the block or at the turbo, and if so what size .060", .080" considering stock honda oil pressure?
12-06-2007, 09:29 PM
#17
Re: oil restrictor placement? (akira712)
I'll answer specifically to your question on the SC61. I just don't have the time anymore to go through a whole symposium like I used to. In your case, If this is indeed a Honda block that you're running, NO an oil restrictor is not necessary for a -3AN line that comes from the oil sender to the turbo itself. the pressure at the line would be about 30psi or so consistently. It will be a different pressure reading at the block itself, then at the end of the feed line. I believe that the SC61 with the p-trim wheel (6169?) uses a 1/4NPT fitting, so you should be pretty good.
12-06-2007, 10:30 PM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (JDMeg95)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMeg95 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who said anything about an sc61? im just looking for 300whp man... but yeah im using a turbonetics t3 t4 </TD></TR></TABLE>
That was for Akira712, but yours falls in the same category as well.
That was for Akira712, but yours falls in the same category as well.
12-07-2007, 07:37 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (TheShodan)
SC6152SP so i believe its a stage 5 (T350-52), and has a 1/8npt on the turbo
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">believe that the SC61 with the p-trim wheel (6169?) uses a 1/4NPT fitting, so you should be pretty good.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">believe that the SC61 with the p-trim wheel (6169?) uses a 1/4NPT fitting, so you should be pretty good.</TD></TR></TABLE>
12-07-2007, 10:17 AM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (JaredKaragen)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JaredKaragen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is about placement not necessity:
The short of it is: If you put the restrictor too far away, it will not be squirting into the turbo but slowly dripping in.....Lets say you start climbing a hill, yout turbo is working hard, and since the restrictor is soo far away, it takes an exponential amount more time to just _fill the hose_ before the oil even gets to the turbo.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
a 4 foot 1/8th inch oil feed will fill near INSTANTLY at 80psi with a 1/16th restrictor. And if you are going up a hill, your oil pump will be pumping, so at no time will your turbo ever run dry.
not to mention the line has oil in it when the car stops running. Every time ive taken my oil feed off i get a nice little mess on my floor. where the hell does that oil come from? the line.
Clear hoses answer lots of questions.
"The short of it is: If you put the restrictor too far away, it will not be squirting into the turbo but slowly dripping in....." keep your oil line under 5 feet, and worry about nothing.
The short of it is: If you put the restrictor too far away, it will not be squirting into the turbo but slowly dripping in.....Lets say you start climbing a hill, yout turbo is working hard, and since the restrictor is soo far away, it takes an exponential amount more time to just _fill the hose_ before the oil even gets to the turbo.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
a 4 foot 1/8th inch oil feed will fill near INSTANTLY at 80psi with a 1/16th restrictor. And if you are going up a hill, your oil pump will be pumping, so at no time will your turbo ever run dry.
not to mention the line has oil in it when the car stops running. Every time ive taken my oil feed off i get a nice little mess on my floor. where the hell does that oil come from? the line.
Clear hoses answer lots of questions.
"The short of it is: If you put the restrictor too far away, it will not be squirting into the turbo but slowly dripping in....." keep your oil line under 5 feet, and worry about nothing.
12-07-2007, 02:40 PM
#22
Re: oil restrictor placement? (akira712)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by akira712 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SC6152SP so i believe its a stage 5 (T350-52), and has a 1/8npt on the turbo
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ah the T3 cartridge. understood.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ah the T3 cartridge. understood.
12-07-2007, 02:54 PM
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Re: oil restrictor placement?
People when you install a restrictor it is not a place to guess what psi you have at the turbo. So dont just go putting a restrictor in place without having a way to first check the oil pressure at the turbo before you install the restrictor and also a way to check the oil pressure at the turbo after you install the restrictor. I would hate for people to just put one in cause they think they need it and cause a turbo failure.
Just because the factory gauge in the car says one thing it doesn't mean that the turbo sees the same. So check the oil psi at the turbo first to verify what you have. It will save you from starving your turbo of oil and needing a repair later on.
Just because the factory gauge in the car says one thing it doesn't mean that the turbo sees the same. So check the oil psi at the turbo first to verify what you have. It will save you from starving your turbo of oil and needing a repair later on.
12-07-2007, 03:02 PM
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Re: oil restrictor placement? (turbodano)
im not entirely sure, but i do know from experience which i prefer now. i had my restrictor at the back of the block and my GT35R blew out seals after 800 miles ( couldn't figure out why. ) when i swapped the turbos out i moved the restrictor to on top of the turbo and been running strong for 2000 miles now.