jlows923d

i was wondering what some of you guys are using for oil pumps on your turbo set ups...
i have used only new type r pumps but im never able to keep my motors oil pressure up..even after rebuilding motors i can only run them hard a couple times before spinning bearings ..im really sick of this problem any ideas of what cause the bearings to spin and create a block knock ..this is rod bearings im talking about .....thanks...

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

Its probably do to improper clearances. No difference in oil pumps, not sure why people think a type R oil pump is different from other b series pumps.

2k.civic.si

correct....and correct

Hondaruss

Is it correct to assume you are the one assembling your engine?

jlows923d

every motor i have ever put into any of my cars yes i have built for all motor set ups and boosted set ups.. ive used all stock bottom ends until they spun bearings wich we all know they do ...my thingis how can i get them to stop wipeing out the bottom ends i always have great oil pressure than like i said race em a couple times than they spin .... what are sometings i could do to stop this before it happends ...oh and my screen name says noob but im def not a noob here just never really post on the site ..been out the game for a while but thinking about setting up my car again ...let me know what you guys think ..examples would be good

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

What part of bearing clearances didn't you understand? All motor setups are usually built with tighter clearances.

What clearances did you come up with when you built the bottom end? I doubt you have an oiling issue cause if that were the case you'd be ruining some main bearings as well. I mean detonation can also cause rod bearing failure, its tough to say.

jlows923d

hey i understood what you ment by clearances ..guy!... what im asking is what can i do to keep the bearings from spinning? if you dont got the answer dont post if you do feel free ...

even on a factory motor lets say where i didnt pull the bottom apart what should the clearance be ..or what should the clearance be on the rod bearings...

hybrdthry911

actually they dont. a properly built and stock bottom ends don't spin bearings. what clearances did you use on your bearings? like SD said detonation can do a number on the bearings too.

madblkscientist

preaty much what there asking is what's the clearance you use and the op is asking what clearances it should be if im getting this correct ill have to look in my fsm to see what the clearances are for these bearings but if you use aftermarket ones then they usually tell you what is suggested

but if everything is within specs and clerances taken into account then i dont know what to tell you

highroller54

from the sounds of it, a oil pump from the space shuttle is not even going to "fix" your problems.

jlows923d

this is a example of what i had ls/vtec ported head & polished head with the works ..
bottom end was a stock 98 ls bottom supposed to have 70 .000 miles i swapped the heads put all the turbo parts on drove it for 2 days raced it once was fine started to tune with s300 a friend was tuneing it ..still motor was fine took it out later that nite ..didnt beat on it just drove it for about 30 miles still fine on the way home beat on it a little bit ...boom knocking all the way home....oil pressure was fine no smoke nothing no symptoms at all..fresh oil ..low boost 14 psi... im just trying to figure it out that all....im sure there was symptoms from when the motor was in the previous car i just new nothing about it ....and its always the same bearing that spins on diffrent motors the bearing closest to the crank pulley ...im guessing its the last one to get oil ..

hybrdthry911

you didnt start tuning it until after you drove it for 2 days and raced it?

i get the gist you think people are tweaking the stock oil system, but people arent doing anything magical to get oil to the bearings, there are no flaws with what honda has designed. you are doing something wrong.

jlows923d

nah ..it had a base map in it from nrg from a couple years back ..so it was good to drive on at 10p after i blew that motor apart i had swapped out the motor for another build but i never built the bottom ...it was a stock bottom with type r oil pump...nothing more but the head was a head i had from another build brand new fully done ... im just saying everyone says use oem parts but im trying to figure out how not to spin bearings thats it ...this is the reason i made this post cause im trying to understand the bottom ends of these motors ...and its usually the same bearing that spins ..so i cant be doing anything wrong. if im only putting a head on the block.

hybrdthry911

continue to use base maps and not having a professional tune the car and you just may continue to destroy motors.

jlows923d

so preety much the tune has to do with spinning the bearings ....to me it doesnt make sense....i thought oil pressure would be more of a factor....

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You're not pointing the finger to self like you should on this one. You're saying you're the only one assembling your motors, yet you see others have theirs assembled with nothing going wrong. But you're seeing the same bearing spinning on all the motors you've built, meaning something has gone wrong. This is very simple; the issue is you. Your methods of assembly is the cause of spinning the bearings. It is not common for an engine that can easily do hundreds of thousands of miles to spin bearings in a matter of days after you've touched them and think nothing is incorrect with your assembly methods. Start reading the OEM HELMS manual carefully, and use the bearing and clearances they recommend if the cranks/rods have not been altered. Either way, you're doing something wrong with your assembly methods.

hybrdthry911

im just saying its possible, not that its definitely what went wrong. massive spikes in cylinder pressure(detonation, not high horsepower) can overcome the oil pressure, typically on a honda the pistons or sleeves will die first though before you start throwing rod bearings but it is possible.

jlows923d

if you read back a couple posts you would see that wjen i say assemble the motor i ment swap the heads or change other parts (not internals).. i was just wondering how to check the clearances on rod bearings ..i know you check em with plasti gauge i just have never done it ..just wanted some tips.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Swapping heads is not assembly of a motor. No one is expecting perfect english all the time, but the mixing of these terms hurt your case for trying to find tips to help.

nonvtecD

You assemble everything like normal only with plastigauge in between the bearing and the crank. It smushes into a certain size and you hold up the supplied piece of paper to see how many thousandths of an inch you have in clearance (more is looser). I have assembled motors with fairly "loose" tolerances and never spun bearings. I'm surprised you have had such good oil pressure with bearing problems.

You can probably youtube it...

jlows923d

this is why i posted ..but this has only happend to me with boosted ls/vtec motors


i one time had built a all motor b16 this motor i had built from the bottom up new bearings you name it eagle rods cp pistons clevite bearings i didnt plasti gauge the rods bearings i just re installed standerd size new ones...the motor was like 250 horspower mild tune nothing crazy with a vtec controller this is going back years..anyway i beat the **** outta this freaking motor all day everyday and never spun a bearing i even sold the motor to kid just getting into the game he beat it up even more the motor was great only thing that killed it was the kid wrapped the car up into a poll.im just trying to figure out a way to stop this from happening....im just looking for help

rat city rex

SO with no tune, and running on a base map,

Well if you det it will kill bearings if it doesnt kill your pistons first. If you think about it

Piston and rod are coming up and compressing air/fuel, b4 it gets to the top say you det, as piston, rod and crank are trying to come up the piston and rod are now being shoved back down towards your crank, thus killing bearings. Squishing bearings untill they get thin and spin.

Also on a side not, what oil are you running? And just so everyone else knows, type-r oil pumps, obd1 vtec oil pump, and all obd2 oil pumps are the same internals.

grndcont

stock. 60 psi will keep most engines alive.

jlows923d

valvoline vr1 oil i was told to run. also the oil psi will start out good when running some place around i belive 60 but at a stop it drops to about 20 i know for every 1000 rpm its 10 psi of oil pressure or something like that my oil pressure was always good...just tring to figure out the bearing trouble oh and also every build i do i always buy a brand new oem oil pum even after a soun bearing ive never used a,used one.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

10psi is REALLY LOW at idle. I mean really low.