No2 why not just o2
09-02-2003, 06:12 PM
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No2 why not just o2
Before the flaming begins please read this completely.....
From what I understand the average Air charge9Outside air like the stuff you breath) is about 27% oxygen... When you add No2 to your engine your bumpiung the oxygen % to around 33-50% o2...
Why not just use Compressed oxygen (at very low levels to raise your incoming air charge? Nothing crazy , just a few percentage points like say 28-32%...
From what I understand the average Air charge9Outside air like the stuff you breath) is about 27% oxygen... When you add No2 to your engine your bumpiung the oxygen % to around 33-50% o2...
Why not just use Compressed oxygen (at very low levels to raise your incoming air charge? Nothing crazy , just a few percentage points like say 28-32%...
09-02-2003, 06:17 PM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Turbo Rex)
Pure oxygen being injected is not stable and if a back fire occurs, will literally turn everything into a blowtorch.
Nitrogen is used as a stabilizer for the oxygen, the nitrogen splits from the oxygen once inside the combustion chamber when compressed and ignited...
Its simply a stabalizer...
Nitrogen is used as a stabilizer for the oxygen, the nitrogen splits from the oxygen once inside the combustion chamber when compressed and ignited...
Its simply a stabalizer...
09-02-2003, 06:28 PM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Turbo Rex)
Well you would need to figure out a way to spray your o2 very slowly and in short bursts, if the engine was to backfire though the intake manifold it's very possible the o2 will ignite and blow your crazy *** up!
Now if you could spray it in short burst like the old GM above the manifold fuel injection system, timed with the length of your intake so that the o2 would only be hitting the intake manifold while the intakve valve was open and allow it to get sucked into the combustion chamber you might have some sucsess... Talking about it and doing it are two differant things....
I would also think that if Using o2 instead of No2 was a good idea or even a better Idea, don't you think the drag racers would already be using it?
Now if you could spray it in short burst like the old GM above the manifold fuel injection system, timed with the length of your intake so that the o2 would only be hitting the intake manifold while the intakve valve was open and allow it to get sucked into the combustion chamber you might have some sucsess... Talking about it and doing it are two differant things....
I would also think that if Using o2 instead of No2 was a good idea or even a better Idea, don't you think the drag racers would already be using it?
09-02-2003, 10:48 PM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Turbo Rex)
remember the apollo launch pad fire... yeah think about that in your engine bay.
also the nitrogen works as an intert gas to help somewhat with the combustion temps. plus there is molecules of oxygen bonded with 2 nitrogen... perfect combination... enough to nitrogen to keep things stable and a ton of o2 to mix with fuel.
Modified by twkdCD595 at 6:50 PM 9/3/2003
also the nitrogen works as an intert gas to help somewhat with the combustion temps. plus there is molecules of oxygen bonded with 2 nitrogen... perfect combination... enough to nitrogen to keep things stable and a ton of o2 to mix with fuel.
Modified by twkdCD595 at 6:50 PM 9/3/2003
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09-03-2003, 12:49 AM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (twkdCD595)
ok, so if normal air is 27% Oxygen and No2 33% Oxygen how do you get differant sized
shots? Like how do you get a 35 shot/50 shot/75 shot/ 100 shot?
shots? Like how do you get a 35 shot/50 shot/75 shot/ 100 shot?
09-03-2003, 04:54 AM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Dead Puppy)
you run different sized jets in the fogger nozzle, which only allow so much nitrous and fuel to pass through in a given amount of time.
09-03-2003, 05:03 AM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (laughinxxx)
I believe pure o2 is highly unstable. It won't take an engine back fire for it to ignite.. it can just explode on its own in the intake manifold. The heat inside the engine will be enough to make it go boom.
09-03-2003, 08:09 AM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Racergurlie)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Racergurlie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pure oxygen being injected is not stable and if a back fire occurs, will literally turn everything into a blowtorch.
Nitrogen is used as a stabilizer for the oxygen, the nitrogen splits from the oxygen once inside the combustion chamber when compressed and ignited...
Its simply a stabalizer...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well said took the words out my mouth.
Nitrogen is used as a stabilizer for the oxygen, the nitrogen splits from the oxygen once inside the combustion chamber when compressed and ignited...
Its simply a stabalizer...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well said took the words out my mouth.
09-03-2003, 08:25 AM
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Doesn't the space shuttle use liquid oxygen as a propellent? Granted this is rocket technology, but just imagine the energy potential of liquid O2.
Hehe, 5000hp 1.6 liter O2 injected 6:1 compression internal combustion engine.
Hehe, 5000hp 1.6 liter O2 injected 6:1 compression internal combustion engine.
09-03-2003, 08:56 AM
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Re: (FuzzyGreen)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FuzzyGreen »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Doesn't the space shuttle use liquid oxygen as a propellent? Granted this is rocket technology, but just imagine the energy potential of liquid O2.
Hehe, 5000hp 1.6 liter O2 injected 6:1 compression internal combustion engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The space shuttle can get away with it because they dont mix the o2 and fuel until inside of the combustion shamber. And high egt's are actually benificial there. The space shuttle uses liquid hydrogen too
In a car, pure oxygen would burn REAL fast. You would have timing very close to zero so it doesnt detonate. And you would need to run richer so the fuel can inhibit the burn (lower egt's). As long as enough fuel to ignite doesnt pool in your intake manifold, you should be alright. I would also suggest installing another fuel rail, and using it to pulse oxygen. That way the oxygen gets sucked up int othe engine right away, so it doesnt linger around. An EGT guage would be a must with o2 injection tho.
Imagine if we could run pure oxygen on our motors, my non-vtec b18b would make like 450hp stock all motor
Hehe, 5000hp 1.6 liter O2 injected 6:1 compression internal combustion engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The space shuttle can get away with it because they dont mix the o2 and fuel until inside of the combustion shamber. And high egt's are actually benificial there. The space shuttle uses liquid hydrogen too
In a car, pure oxygen would burn REAL fast. You would have timing very close to zero so it doesnt detonate. And you would need to run richer so the fuel can inhibit the burn (lower egt's). As long as enough fuel to ignite doesnt pool in your intake manifold, you should be alright. I would also suggest installing another fuel rail, and using it to pulse oxygen. That way the oxygen gets sucked up int othe engine right away, so it doesnt linger around. An EGT guage would be a must with o2 injection tho.
Imagine if we could run pure oxygen on our motors, my non-vtec b18b would make like 450hp stock all motor
09-03-2003, 09:15 AM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (CIVILGSR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CIVILGSR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">then what effect does the Co2 sprayer have on a engine?????</TD></TR></TABLE>
None.
But when used to to spray on your FMIC, it'll help cool down the intake charge.
BTW, I'd like to see someone attempt to inject pure oxygen into their motors. I can read their obituary now..."Killed by an idiotic attempt to increase the output of their puny 1.6L Honda by injecting pure oxygen into the motor and blowing up half the interstate."
It's not about how big of an "explosion" you can make...it's about harnessing that energy and using it to your mechanical advantage. Anyone can blow **** up.
None.
But when used to to spray on your FMIC, it'll help cool down the intake charge.
BTW, I'd like to see someone attempt to inject pure oxygen into their motors. I can read their obituary now..."Killed by an idiotic attempt to increase the output of their puny 1.6L Honda by injecting pure oxygen into the motor and blowing up half the interstate."
It's not about how big of an "explosion" you can make...it's about harnessing that energy and using it to your mechanical advantage. Anyone can blow **** up.
09-03-2003, 10:26 AM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Turbo Rex)
Not to be all scientific, but this is the place where I can be... 
I scuba and use pure O2 for deco. Because of this endeavour I decided to research O2 and the dangers of it under pressure...
The main problem with utilizing O2 on a car would not be the fogger or where/when to place it... it would be how to open and close the system safely.
O2 is VERY dangerous because it is easy to ignite. One of the dangers of using any type of pressurized system to deliver the O2 is adiabatic ignition. This is what actually causes MOST oxygen related accidents because people forget how sensitive O2 really is... Obviously since O2 is so sensitive to adiabatic ignition there would be no way to deliver it properly at the right time and right flow rate when needed.
I would not even try to use O2 and would stick with more stable boosters such as n2o.
I scuba and use pure O2 for deco. Because of this endeavour I decided to research O2 and the dangers of it under pressure...
The main problem with utilizing O2 on a car would not be the fogger or where/when to place it... it would be how to open and close the system safely.
O2 is VERY dangerous because it is easy to ignite. One of the dangers of using any type of pressurized system to deliver the O2 is adiabatic ignition. This is what actually causes MOST oxygen related accidents because people forget how sensitive O2 really is... Obviously since O2 is so sensitive to adiabatic ignition there would be no way to deliver it properly at the right time and right flow rate when needed.
I would not even try to use O2 and would stick with more stable boosters such as n2o.
09-03-2003, 10:32 AM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Turbo Rex)
09-03-2003, 10:37 AM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Turbo Rex)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo Rex »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well using fuel injection is better then Carburartion but they still use carbs</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sure about that buddy? Why would Bisi use carbs on his 10 second D series all motor? Think about what you say before you say it.
Sure about that buddy? Why would Bisi use carbs on his 10 second D series all motor? Think about what you say before you say it.
09-03-2003, 11:04 AM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Happyman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Happyman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Sure about that buddy? Why would Bisi use carbs on his 10 second D series all motor? Think about what you say before you say it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That doesn't mean that carbs are better then FI, it just means that Bisi doesn't know how to tune FI properly with his setup. He probably would be in the 9's with a proper FI setup and tune. FI is WAY more accurate then carbs. Plus you can inject closer to the intake valves to cool the charge more and run higher compression and leaner mixures.
Sure about that buddy? Why would Bisi use carbs on his 10 second D series all motor? Think about what you say before you say it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That doesn't mean that carbs are better then FI, it just means that Bisi doesn't know how to tune FI properly with his setup. He probably would be in the 9's with a proper FI setup and tune. FI is WAY more accurate then carbs. Plus you can inject closer to the intake valves to cool the charge more and run higher compression and leaner mixures.
09-03-2003, 12:49 PM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (FuzzyGreen)
oxygen is a diatomic molecule, which means that it physically cannot be alone. It must bond to either another oxygen molecule, another diatomic molecule (which has been doubled up), or another element (such as aluminum).
n2o has 2 nitrogen molecules paired up to every 1 oxygen molecule (nitrogen is also a diatomic molecule, that's why its not just NO [one nitrogen molecule to every 1 oxygen molecule - that would be one helluva combustable/unstable bond]). The 2 nitrogen molecules are relativly stable and when piared up with the other single oxygen molecule, it becomes just about perfectly stable.
if you were injecting oxygen into your motor you would be injecting "o2", not just "O." It is physically impossible to have just "O." IF you injected o2 into your motor the combustion would be so violent without another stabilizer that i don't even know what would happen - liek someone said earlier something to the extent of the apollo launch pad!
-Ryan
n2o has 2 nitrogen molecules paired up to every 1 oxygen molecule (nitrogen is also a diatomic molecule, that's why its not just NO [one nitrogen molecule to every 1 oxygen molecule - that would be one helluva combustable/unstable bond]). The 2 nitrogen molecules are relativly stable and when piared up with the other single oxygen molecule, it becomes just about perfectly stable.
if you were injecting oxygen into your motor you would be injecting "o2", not just "O." It is physically impossible to have just "O." IF you injected o2 into your motor the combustion would be so violent without another stabilizer that i don't even know what would happen - liek someone said earlier something to the extent of the apollo launch pad!
-Ryan
09-03-2003, 01:45 PM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (tegasaurus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegasaurus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you were injecting oxygen into your motor you would be injecting "o2", not just "O." It is physically impossible to have just "O." IF you injected o2 into your motor the combustion would be so violent without another stabilizer that i don't even know what would happen - liek someone said earlier something to the extent of the apollo launch pad!
-Ryan</TD></TR></TABLE>
[sarcasm]Thanks for the physics lesson[/sarcasm] Anyways, it can be the most unstable fuel in the world, but if its ignited at or near 0 degree BTDC, its impossible to detonate unless your motor physically detonates from the pressure
You guys are also missing the fact that o2 does not explode, there needs to be fuel to be an explotion. And gasoline has a VERY narrow a/f ignition window.
-Ryan</TD></TR></TABLE>
[sarcasm]Thanks for the physics lesson
[/sarcasm] Anyways, it can be the most unstable fuel in the world, but if its ignited at or near 0 degree BTDC, its impossible to detonate unless your motor physically detonates from the pressure You guys are also missing the fact that o2 does not explode, there needs to be fuel to be an explotion. And gasoline has a VERY narrow a/f ignition window.
09-03-2003, 01:53 PM
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Re: No2 why not just o2 (Delete_Me)
for the last time, oxygen isn't flammable
there is two reasons why you don't use o2 insteald of n02. One is b/c the n02 stablizes teh burn in teh cylindar.
two: because if your car starts on fire (crash) pure oxygen is a BURN ACCELERATOR which would literally cause the fire to burn rediculously hot and would def. kill the chances of your survival. That, and it's really expensive to get pure oxygen.
Don't beleive me? they sell mini oxygen can's at home depot. Buy one, and try to burn it: GOOD LUCK!
Remember: acetlyne / propane torches to solder, OXY-ACYTELENE to weld / CUT. Oxygen is a burn ACCELERATOR. (fire can't happen without it). It makes the flame hotter!
lastly, in theory, there is absolutley NO reason why an oxygen-injecton system would NOT work. it would, if you could control it correctly, and it would work well. It's just too much money, too dangerous, and too much of a pain in the ***!
there is two reasons why you don't use o2 insteald of n02. One is b/c the n02 stablizes teh burn in teh cylindar.
two: because if your car starts on fire (crash) pure oxygen is a BURN ACCELERATOR which would literally cause the fire to burn rediculously hot and would def. kill the chances of your survival. That, and it's really expensive to get pure oxygen.
Don't beleive me? they sell mini oxygen can's at home depot. Buy one, and try to burn it: GOOD LUCK!
Remember: acetlyne / propane torches to solder, OXY-ACYTELENE to weld / CUT. Oxygen is a burn ACCELERATOR. (fire can't happen without it). It makes the flame hotter!
lastly, in theory, there is absolutley NO reason why an oxygen-injecton system would NOT work. it would, if you could control it correctly, and it would work well. It's just too much money, too dangerous, and too much of a pain in the ***!
09-03-2003, 02:01 PM
#25
What is this crap?
Re: No2 why not just o2 (Johnyquest)
not only is it a burn accelerator, but it can allow other materials to achieve plasma state (burning) that you would not think of as combustible. i am pretty sure just about anything would burn provided the rigth amount of oxygen was present.
i've seen metals like iron and magnesium burn on their own in the right conditions. once you get the air/fuel ratio right, provide a spark, viola you made fire. this could be real bad in your engine bay.
i've seen metals like iron and magnesium burn on their own in the right conditions. once you get the air/fuel ratio right, provide a spark, viola you made fire. this could be real bad in your engine bay.
