I have some questions about nitrous. hopefully u can help.

I wanna know if a stock block hold a 100 shot direct port or higher? i want it for drags only so it wont be 100 shot all the time. or can it even have a bigger shot.

 

i had put forged pistons and crower rods in my block and sprayed 150 shot every weekend for a year and it held just fine so i dont see why a stock block could not handel a 100 shoot. you might want to bump up your fuel. also i changed my oil every 2 weeks when i sprayed every weekend.

 

What motor were you spraying babyboi? Was it the B16 I'm assuming from your name?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StreetRacnGsR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wanna know if a stock block hold a 100 shot direct port or higher? i want it for drags only so it wont be 100 shot all the time. or can it even have a bigger shot.
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If you purchase a complete kit from a manufacturer, stick with their recommendations. Most import engines with stock internals can handle a 75 shot with no problems, but you should dial that back to 50 for an added margine of saftey. Any more and your playing Russian roulet with your engine.

 

I agree with Buzzbomb. Anything more than a 75 shot and you might as well build a stronger shortblock. It will probably hold the 100 shot stock, but why take the chance? Build the motor, then if you want more than a 100 shot, now you have more options.

 

i've heard of some running DP 100-125 shot on their stock B16's and B18's, but how long it holds up is another thing. some have stated that it holds up for 1-2 years, but as was already mentioned who knows what will happen. a bit of freak detonation could throw or break a rod, or put a hole in a piston etc.

i would stick to a 75 shot wet or 80 DP but that's about it for a bone stock motor.
it's better to be safe than sorry. when you get more $$ and have the time then build the block up for 100-125 shot.

i ran up to 125 shot DP with rods, pistons and SS valves no problem really.

 

I wouldnt go past a 75 shot tuned!

 

we have been spraying a 160shot dry on a buddies high compression ls motor. its not about what it can hold its about how long it will hold. he doesnt mind blowing up ls motors. he has been on the 160 shot for a while though.

 

Impressive, what kit was he using?, it was 160 shot dry!?

 

it shuold handle a direct port 100shot as long as you use a bigger in-tank fuel pump and high octane race gas. i would remove the cat at the track and run 118 octane.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MotorMatrix.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we have been spraying a 160shot dry on a buddies high compression ls motor. its not about what it can hold its about how long it will hold. he doesnt mind blowing up ls motors. he has been on the 160 shot for a while though.</TD></TR></TABLE>

a dry shot?? hmm, do you have larger injectors to compensate for all that N2O?

i could see a 160 shot dry on a V8 but on a 4 cylinder normally only a DP system is used for injections as high as 160 shot.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotypeR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it shuold handle a direct port 100shot as long as you use a bigger in-tank fuel pump and high octane race gas. i would remove the cat at the track and run 118 octane.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you don't even need race fuel for 100-125 shot with 10:1 C/R. i ran 11:1 C/R with 100-125 shot DP on 93 octane fuel (pump gas). it was a B18C with just a FPR and fuel pump, along with the NOS DP system and MSD ignition system. 93 or 94 octane fuel is enough normally unless you're running a really high C/R.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Buzzbomb &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If you purchase a complete kit from a manufacturer, stick with their recommendations. Most import engines with stock internals can handle a 75 shot with no problems, but you should dial that back to 50 for an added margine of saftey. Any more and your playing Russian roulet with your engine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sweet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

a dry shot?? hmm, do you have larger injectors to compensate for all that N2O?

i could see a 160 shot dry on a V8 but on a 4 cylinder normally only a DP system is used for injections as high as 160 shot. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't see why a 160 shot dry is any more dangerous on a 4 cylinder than a V8. Sure there is more nitrous per cylinder, but as long as the injectors are big enough, what is more of a worry for a 4 than an 8? Why is a wet kit a better idea for a Honda with a big shot, and not so much of a worry for a V8? Both motors can detonate. What are they doing different?

 

I say just remember that factory oem honda pistons will shatter at the frequency that NOS detonates at. I say go forged and squeeze away.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoonfed95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I say just remember that factory oem honda pistons will shatter at the frequency that NOS detonates at. I say go forged and squeeze away.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I like this guy. He thinks like me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't see why a 160 shot dry is any more dangerous on a 4 cylinder than a V8. Sure there is more nitrous per cylinder, but as long as the injectors are big enough, what is more of a worry for a 4 than an 8? Why is a wet kit a better idea for a Honda with a big shot, and not so much of a worry for a V8? Both motors can detonate. What are they doing different?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes you have a point, that if the injectors are big enough there shouldn't be a problem. but you have to take into consideration how the motor is setup N/A, and how it will run with injectors that are large enough to handle the extra 160HP worth of N2O since most of the time it will be running N/A not on the bottle (unless it's strictly a track car of course). you can only go so big with injectors to the point where you compromise the idle and N/A performance of the motor.

so my questions concerning the 160 shot dry system basically are:
what size injectors are being used to provide enough fuel for 160 shot of N2O? how is the motor running N/A? and how is the tuning done exactly so that the motor can operate differently (properly) between N/A and N2O injected? using increased fuel pressure (during injection) along with the larger injectors?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoonfed95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I say just remember that factory oem honda pistons will shatter at the frequency that NOS detonates at. I say go forged and squeeze away.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes i agree, personally i would use both rods and pistons to be sure the block is strong over time. just to be safe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sweet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so my questions concerning the 160 shot dry system basically are:
what size injectors are being used to provide enough fuel for 160 shot of N2O? how is the motor running N/A? and how is the tuning done exactly so that the motor can operate differently (properly) between N/A and N2O injected? using increased fuel pressure (during injection) along with the larger injectors?
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Exactly, this is what I'm trying to figure out. My theory is that if a turbo daily driver can utilize such big injectors why couldn't a nitrous daily driver. True, the turbo is always there unlike juice, but what about at idle and low rpms? The turbo isn't spooled so you would think it would idle or run just as bad. I'm thinking DSM 450cc injectors, that should be enough to supply 125 shot. Could a Hondata tune the injectors way down to run good off the juice and then using their new nitrous control crank them way up when you flip the switch?

Mike, can you give us some details of your friend with the 160 shots setup?

 

also the reason i stated "wet system" (which includes Direct Port) for the higher injections was due to the fact that the fuel is provided via a fuel solenoid, or maybe 2 solenoids depending on the system, and also controlled by the jet and fuel pressure via a FPR. in turn the injectors aren't required to add any additional fuel since the fuel solenoid and high flowing fuel pump do all the work. so therefore there really isn't any calculating in order to use larger injectors and varied fuel pressures like the "Dry systems" use (or use stock injectors with increased fuel pressure for lower dry injections). also there is a more even distribution of the N2O/Fuel mixture throughout the IM runners into the head intake ports and combustion chambers. that is why i personally prefer the Direct Port wet systems for injections rated at 80 shot or higher, and that's why i stated what i did before.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Exactly, this is what I'm trying to figure out. My theory is that if a turbo daily driver can utilize such big injectors why couldn't a nitrous daily driver. True, the turbo is always there unlike juice, but what about at idle and low rpms? The turbo isn't spooled so you would think it would idle or run just as bad. I'm thinking DSM 450cc injectors, that should be enough to supply 125 shot. Could a Hondata tune the injectors way down to run good off the juice and then using their new nitrous control crank them way up when you flip the switch?

Mike, can you give us some details of your friend with the 160 shots setup?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i was going to mention a turbo setup as a comparison since a turbo motor requires more fuel and one way to provide more fuel is via a bit larger injectors (but not too big) and increased fuel pressure when under boost (kinda like when you flip the switch of a Dry N2O system and the fuel pressure is increased for enough fuel).
but since most turbo motors see at least a few # of boost at almost all times, i figured it may not be the best comparison. i guess either way it is.

Hondata can tune injectors very well, possibly with an N2O setup like what we're talking about. if larger injectors are used at low fuel pressure levels the Hondata could tune them well for N/A performance and idle etc. then with increased fuel pressure during N2O injection the injectors could provide enough fuel to compensate for the added N2O. i don't know much about the new N2O feature on the Hondata system. i no longer use N2O injection so i haven't really looked into it.
maybe someone else could shed some more light on it...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe someone else could shed some more light on it...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know, I would love to hear about that 160 shot system.

 

i didn't mean you would have to use race gas but it would be a good idea to be safe

 

ok, the 160 shot system is not reliable but it has lasted for several months. the injectors are stock ls injectors, with 255 fuel pump and a fuel pressure regulator and retarded timing. usually you want to run a wet kit so your injectors dont have to work so hard. my buddy doesnt liek the wet kits and runs the kit on his car dry. he has even sprayed now 175 shot on his car he told me. the last motor was 75 first stage,100 second stage and 100 third stage. well that motor let go after 2 passes down the street. if its not your daily driver and the motor is cheap like an ls you can afford to run as much n20 as you want until lets go. i dont run my cars that way buit just wanted to give you an example of a motor that has held together so far.

 

Stock injectors?! How was there enough fuel? My 240cc's are maxed at a 75 shot was my understanding. I want to build a semi-reliable car on nitrous (I know any time you add horsepower, your chances increase of something breaking), but I will be taking more precautions, stronger rods, forged pistons, 450cc injectors, and hondata tuning. I have a theory that 125 shot dry would be safe. Was the NOS kit he used a single fogger?