shermanyang

iTrader: (1)

Hi guys, well...this past weekend i installed my turbo kit and used UberTeg's chip. Everything went alright and I LOVED THE 2 step launch control!! anyway, after boosting @ 6psi for about an hour my motor started to smoke really bad!! checked everything and turns out the rings are bad/not seated(900 miles on motor). it was 120 +/-5 all the way across. i called my mechanic and asked what to do and he just told me to drain out all the synthetic oil, flush oil system, use regular oil, and break the motor in again but this time it's okay to redline here and there. I've never heard of this before so i'm asking all H-T members what they think of this. Please help me out...

shermanyang

iTrader: (1)

help

UberTeg

ouch, i wish i wasnt so stupid when it came to engien stuff or i could help ya out

BoostedSi

Rings not seating after 900 miles seems very odd to me. They usually seat after 100miles or so.

Mr. Softee

synthetic oil? you needed to use non synthetic on break in...

also i wouldnt have been boosting until at least 1500 miles

boosted hybrid

Rings seat within 50 miles in most cases. When you broke your motor in you should have done the following:

1. Started the car, and idled at 2000-3000rpm for 20-30 minutes to seat the rings.
2. Used non detergent based oil to break the engine in.
3. Ran the engine for at least 1000 miles before you boosted.

If your rings didnt seat, then something is wrong. The piston/ring assembly might not have been assembled right, or had the clearances checked. Modern rings dont take that long to seat properly, but its still a good idea to let your engine break in with some miles varying the loading and rpm liberally in doing so. I would say that your going to have to pull the bottom end apart and take care of those rings, they arent going to seal if they havent already.

GOLDBERG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rings seat within 50 miles in most cases. When you broke your motor in you should have done the following:

1. Started the car, and idled at 2000-3000rpm for 20-30 minutes to seat the rings.
2. Used non detergent based oil to break the engine in.
3. Ran the engine for at least 1000 miles before you boosted.

If your rings didnt seat, then something is wrong. The piston/ring assembly might not have been assembled right, or had the clearances checked. Modern rings dont take that long to seat properly, but its still a good idea to let your engine break in with some miles varying the loading and rpm liberally in doing so. I would say that your going to have to pull the bottom end apart and take care of those rings, they arent going to seal if they havent already.</TD></TR></TABLE>

so
1)adjust idle to 2500 and leave it running for a half hour
2) what kind of oil do you use???


do i do these same things if i have a shop install forged pistons and rods??do i still needa do step 1 and 2 ??and wait for 1000 miles before I boost?

boosted hybrid

I stay with the car with foot on the gas pedal, while having someone listen in the engine compartment for any noises/leaks.

Any non-detergent oil will work. Heavy machinery oil is usually non-detergent based. I believe I used 20w-50 Penzoil, for heavy machinery. The extra viscosity of the oil I feel is the best for breaking in the engine.

I dont trust what shops do, most of them dont really know/understand how to build an engine let alone the proper maintenance. I am breaking in my new engine with at least 3,000 miles before the rings will see boost. Make sure you change the oil the first 500 miles with the filter, as well as 1000 mile mark with the filter. After the 1000 mile mark you can use whatever oil you choose. I also like to use magnetic oil drain plugs since they help catch the tiny metal shavings in the oil.

lazerus

my engine was broken in as followed.

1.) started it.
2.) warmed it up to 190 degrees F
3.) Took it out, kept revs under 4k RPM. Boost set at 6 lbs for first 5 mins.
4.) after 5 mins, went to 5k RPM varying gears load and rpm.
5.) After that. No holds barred. 9k RPM and 6k boost varying gears.
6.) Compression is perfect, rings are seated after &lt;50 mi.

Breaking in engines a very tough subject isn't it. :\ Everyone has their own way.

BACK ON TOPIC! lol.

Sounds like something totally went south. i'd talk to your engine builder/tuner and see what he has to say about the build, something doesen't add up. nless you were running unusually lean.

GOLDBERG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I stay with the car with foot on the gas pedal, while having someone listen in the engine compartment for any noises/leaks.

Any non-detergent oil will work. Heavy machinery oil is usually non-detergent based. I believe I used 20w-50 Penzoil, for heavy machinery. The extra viscosity of the oil I feel is the best for breaking in the engine.

I dont trust what shops do, most of them dont really know/understand how to build an engine let alone the proper maintenance. I am breaking in my new engine with at least 3,000 miles before the rings will see boost. Make sure you change the oil the first 500 miles with the filter, as well as 1000 mile mark with the filter. After the 1000 mile mark you can use whatever oil you choose. I also like to use magnetic oil drain plugs since they help catch the tiny metal shavings in the oil.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what about vr1 10w-30?? so the 3000 miles(wow thats alot on this island) is that mandatory??earlier u said something about 1000 miles only(little easier)and do i need this kind of breakin with just replacing engine internals??(forged rods n pistons)3000 miles would take me around 6 months...

also where can you get those magnetic drain plugs? thanks for all the info boosted hybrid

boosted hybrid

I am not sure if vr1 10w-30 contains detergent or not, you'll have to research that.

You dont "have" to run the engine for 3,000 miles that is just what I feel is super conservative for breaking in an engine. The 1000 mile break in period is also conservative figure as well, and the rings will be seated by that time.

You'll want to apply the boost in increments on the rings are the break in. I start with 4lbs, then 7lbs, then 10lbs, then 14lbs. Each increment getting 200 miles of boost each. Once you reach around 14lbs the rings will be seated with boost properly, and you can crank it up till the engine cant take anymore.

I purchased a bunch of those drain plugs from groupbuycenter.com last year. I believe they were 15.00 a piece.

boosted hybrid

Yeah everyone has their own method. I am super careful when it comes to engine stuff, probably overly careful. I KNOW that the rings will be fully seated in the first 50 miles, but I like to drive the engine and see if anything wants to "shake" loose on me.

GOLDBERG

awesome..all i plan on running with these internals is 12lbs...its my d16y7 its just for fun..see what she can do before i replace her with the dohc so 4, 7, 10, 12? thnx man!!!

GOLDBERG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am not sure if vr1 10w-30 contains detergent or not, you'll have to research that.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dunno..will it say that on the bottle?? and why non detergent oil?

boosted hybrid

It may/may not say it on the bottle. I know the penzoil stuff I used says it right on the bottle.

The reasoning behind using non detergent oil is that detergent based oil, 90% of the oil on the market, carries alot of chemicals within the oil. These chemicals will immediately work their way into the microscopic layer of the bearing surfaces of the engine you are breaking in. The detergents will stick to the metallurgy in the break-in period, and effectively create a higher wear on the new bearing surfaces.

GOLDBERG

solid...so why doesnt this affect motors already broken in???damn i'm getting some good info tonight

UberTeg

bizump

intekragsr

Good topic. I just swapped in my new motor yesterday. The first oil change after 15 minutes some nasty stuff. Had a crapload dark brown stuff, some swirly white stuff all from the engine assembly lube. I am repeating this process 2 more times before I take it on the street.

BTW, I am using castrol gtx 10w30 non synthetic. Does anyone know if this contains detergents?

boosted hybrid

Without going into the molecular level of the bearing surfaces (which I am not really that great at chemistry), the pure oil or the non detergent based oil can work into the bearings porous surface. Upon breaking in the new engine the porous surface of the bearings has no oil worked into them. The non detergent is the best because it creates a "pre lube" of sorts where the oil will be in the porous surface instead of added chemicals. Once the pores have absorbed the pure oil, they stay in the pores. After the break in it doesnt matter what type of oil you use, in fact I would suggest using full synthetic.

Also the thicker oil 20w-50 for example is a better choice for the fact that in the bearing/oil contact area the oil is under enormous pressure. The spinning of the crank and rods in the journals places extreme pressures into the thin oil film. The film of oil is under a non-linear shear distribution, so the bottom typically goes into a oval shape as much as possible. The thicker oil carries better oiling properties to the bearing surfaces, as well as withstanding pressure better than thinner viscosity oil. Its essential that the bearings get all the oil that they can during the break-in period. That is my reasoning behind using thicker weight oil during break-in.

maxpsi

Wouldn't the engine have to work harder thus creating higher engine temps when using the heavier oil like 20w50?

boosted hybrid

The increased viscosity isnt that much of an issue. You loose maybe 2-3 hp in frictional loses over thinner viscosity oil. The thicker viscosity improves cooling capability of the engine since their is more molecular weight per unit oil, so the thicker oil can cool down the engine better. I believe the old saying goes thinner in the winter, thicker in the summer.

tonesdef

intresting. But one question isn't this why you use install lube with the parts. Or do you use it only for the head work.

boosted hybrid

The lube is just that, to pre-lube the bearing surfaces. The lube is for the initial start up before the oil pressure is built up in the engine enough to drive oil pressure into the surfaces. Bearing lubricant at least for the mains and rod bearing is non detergent as well.

shermanyang

iTrader: (1)

I just wanted to thank you BOOSTED HYBRID, you've been a great help. I didn't want to take the motor apart as this is my only car and it's freaken COLD right now in MN. so what i did was drained the synthetic oil(all of this was done just a few hours ago), added 3 1/3 quarts of mobile 1 10w-30 and 2/3 JB ring seal stuff...you know, that thick stuff??!? , and changed my filter. i started my car afterwards and it smoked for awhile, i let it idle for about 5 min or so and then i started my little hour drive of abuse. i drove on the highway(no cars tonight?!!?) switching gears constantly and tried to stay off of being in a certain rpm for too long. oh yeah, then came the local ricers and i had a short little match with them . got to my destination(girlfriend's house) and let it idle a bit...no smoke. hmm...i dont' think it's cured yet but i think tomorrow after work, i'm gonna give it another compression test.


Hey Boosted Hybrid, do you think it would help any if i switched to non-detergent oil as of now or is it too late for that? gosh, i'm getting a headache trying to get my car back in the darkside....

boosted hybrid

Its to late, the chemical additives in the oil have already worked their way into the molecular level of the bearing surface. The peaks and valleys of the bearing surface have part chemical/part oil, so at this point just stick with whatever oil you have been using.