i am now that much more educated. great write up.

 

earl thanks alot for the post....


i have a question on boosting , i dont have a stock header or anything to put on my car , what do you recomend i do??? can i have the turbo all hooked up and just not boost it??

 

Probly the most usefull post in history. well done

 

My engine builder gave me very similar advice when I picked up my engine from him.

One question though: What do you think about starting it up this way, then hooking up a wideband O2 sensor, like the one that plugs into an AEM EMS, and street tuning it from there?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's that feeling you get when the motor keeps feeling stronger each week. Higher compression with the better seal. What I am preaching is that it is better to tune first than to chance ruining your new motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Has anyone ever compression tested their engine after the first initial startup and then at 500 miles? I'm curious to know how much the compression increases. If it increases significantly, wouldn't it have been wise to tune after the 500 miles when the engine has reached its full compression? I broke my last build up in for 500 miles with non-detergant oil before any tuning, but there was no turbo on it.

 

you ran non detergent oil for how long????

 

Earl, thanks for taking the time to post at such length How do you feel about using synthetic oil from the get go? Also, like Hella_JDM mentioned, is there any reason I couldn't just use a header during the initial startup then install the turbo prior to tuning?

 

i think im gonna have the turbo on , but the charge pipe not hooked up . will that work?

 

your the man.
This is what ive been telling all my friends, but they dont listen to me. I guess becuase i dont have a degree.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The more heat that is generated, the harder the piston pushes into the cylinder wall. The uninformed would blame the piston damage on bad piston to wall clearance. Untrue. If that were the problem, the damage would show up at the very bottom of the skirt. What has happened is that you have expanded your piston to the point that it has just ground itself into the cylinder wall. Keep expanding the piston by super heating it and it will push your cylinder egg shaped and maybe even balloon out the cylinder slightly. At the same time this is happening, your ring lands will begin to distort to where they will never seal properly again. Sometimes after doing this, the engine will still run but it will be a smoker. This all happens in a few seconds of high boost with a lean air fuel ratio. Also it can happen from 500 freeway miles of driving where the tune up is off enough to build excess heat at a slower rate, thus doing the same damage over a longer period of time…but the end results are the same. Death to your pistons and cylinder walls.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

when you talk about the piston expanding from freeway driving, you are refering to egt's correct? is there a specific temperature this expansion/deformation of cylinder occurs? my egts are at 800 C constantly freeway driving. wondering if thats too high?

 

I've been wondering about this same thing myself as the first startup draws closer... thanks for taking the time Earl.

One quick question: would you think it safe for me to break in my setup on the factory ecu? Everything stock except for CP 9:1 pistons (down from 9.2:1 LS stock ratio). This is what I've been planning on. I think a few LS turbo builders would be in the same situation.

 

Thanks for the ideas earl.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have a question on boosting , i dont have a stock header or anything to put on my car , what do you recomend i do??? can i have the turbo all hooked up and just not boost it??</TD></TR></TABLE>Pull the charge pipe...no chance then

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dtmamg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What do you think about starting it up this way, then hooking up a wideband O2 sensor, like the one that plugs into an AEM EMS, and street tuning it from there?</TD></TR></TABLE>That should be ok. I'm not a tuner but the key thing is to get it half way close before driving.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hpfsi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> How do you feel about using synthetic oil from the get go?</TD></TR></TABLE>We have tried using synthetic as a break-in oil and noticed no difference. However, I would still recommend using non-synthetic for the first break-in.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -iLLuZioN-B18C1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

when you talk about the piston expanding from freeway driving, you are refering to egt's correct? is there a specific temperature this expansion/deformation of cylinder occurs? my egts are at 800 C constantly freeway driving. wondering if thats too high?</TD></TR></TABLE>I don't believe in using exh gas temps as an exact measuring tool (unless you have a probe in each cylinder). Those temps can fool you. If you retard the ignition, the temps will go up because the fuel is still burning in the exhaust. Experienced tuners, help me here..

 

I read the part about base maps. I gave my tuner that is 2hr away a list of everything that is done to the engine from compression,bore,engine, to my exhaust size. He burned a program for my hondata. Also it including use 750cc injectors. I asked him if that would get me down there pretty good even though it is a basemap. It took about 1.30 - 2hr on my basemap.

If I just go to 4500 rpm on break in. No access to a truck to haul it done. Could this pulled off?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by acy76 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would you think it safe for me to break in my setup on the factory ecu? Everything stock except for CP 9:1 pistons (down from 9.2:1 LS stock ratio).</TD></TR></TABLE>Not sure on this. On the surface, it would seem ok but you just can't assume anything. Tuners...jump in on this..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could this pulled off?</TD></TR></TABLE>No promises on this. I am not a tuner. I have run my post past several knowledgeable people (Ben Strader, EFI101, Dan Benson, etc) before sharing it with everyone. It is not the final word but just something I believe is the safe way to break-in a motor. I'm sure others have broken-in their motors completely opposite and have had good rsults.

 

us hillbilles been sayin no breakins for years...... finally someone who ppl listen to says it....... thanks earl

 

very nice write up.......knowledge is power!!

 

Earl makes me afraid to even start my new motor.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Has anyone ever compression tested their engine after the first initial startup and then at 500 miles? I'm curious to know how much the compression increases. If it increases significantly, wouldn't it have been wise to tune after the 500 miles when the engine has reached its full compression? I broke my last build up in for 500 miles with non-detergant oil before any tuning, but there was no turbo on it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Anyone have a response to my post here? Just trying to do some brain storming.

 

ive always pulled outta the garage and beat the brakes off of it

 

importbuilders.com also says to use this method. they had a really good write up on their website. u guys should check it out. and they got some other good info on how to properly tune your car. i found it very insightful. check it out http://www.importbuilders.com/breakin.html