mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

Alright so im getting ready to piece a W2A set up together, and need some help with sizing. Frozenboosst.com has set ups for certain power figures, but i want to understand what size exactly i need, and why. Need help on:

pump - How much flow/pressure
IC - what size/shape.
heat exhanger - what size.
water - how many gallons

I understand how the system works and what it needs to work, i just dont know how to size the components.

thanks!

EDIT: just wanted to add that from my research, this is what i have determined i should be getting:

intercooler(too big?)
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...0358f9fb9b1bec
radiator
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...0358f9fb9b1bec
or would this work better?
http://www.altheatsupply.com/60-000-...exchanger.html
pump
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...15207&id=84732

I will be pushing 300-350whp.

mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

Damm guys, no one has knowledge on water to air?

mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

Amazed!

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

what help i can be as im Supercharged not turbo

hose 3/4 or an12
bosch pump
cooler / radiator as large as you can fit
the cooler is all about surface area not thickness ..stay thin
alloy coolers work better than steel oil ones
bar plate coolers dont work very well radiator style work the best
dedicated resivour not the washer bottle
resivour at least 1/3 the total capacity of the system

my setup is good for 1200hp v8
so i never have heat issues even on a 4hr drive in 45c/113f weather
with a road surface temp near 90c/194f

mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the info. anybody else wanna chime in? or do i have to be the guinea pig ?

OneBadTurboCRV

For your horsepower goals it is a complete waste of time, money, and effort. For those low goals practically anything will suffice. These types of setups aren't popular because the traditional method is MUCH cheaper alternative...

mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

Understandable and there is no doubting that a FMIC set up is easier and has less components. Frozen boost sells “600hp” w2a kits for $300 with great reviews on quality. Of course I still need IC piping and a reservoir and lines, but those are not too expensive when DIY. All in all, around $400 for a complete intercooler kit(NEW) does not sound to be much more expensive at all. I like the idea of being different as well as the improvement in throttle response/spool (theoretically, as I haven’t actually see any back to back data)

On the other hand, i can pick up a cxracing 550hp~ w2a intercooler for $100 shipped, a used civic dual core half radiator off craigslist for $50, a new external water pump for $30, plus a fan and lines, lets say just under $300 for everything, no tax. Sounds good to me.

Timmay

what are you average intake temps cruising and WOT pulls?

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

on a hot day like above cruise is around 10-15c above ambient on average
WOT it will spike to 20-25c above but come down almost instantly
I do get a tiny bit higher and slightly higher spikes but for the most part there to quick to read as the system recovers so fast

Im also at 14psi that dont sound much to the Turbo crowd but for Supercharged thats very high

Blown90hatcH

Agreed. You are creating more headache than it is worth.

mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

guys, while i appreciate your opinions, im already set on doing w2a and am only looking for some answers on sizing and what not. There doesnt seem to be much data that i can find on this, as such i turn to some of you w2a guys out there for advise. if there are any!

Timmay

those intake temps dont really seem all that much lower than a non w2a jrsc setup. I had one on a gsr, 10lbs and i was seeing about same 50-80deg above ambient , sometimes higher if just sitting at idle alot

imo only way to make a w2a setup work right is having a big *** tank with ice in it and a really good pump, just a standard rad even with fan on it really isnt gonna do much for all that extra work

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

if i was not water cooled Id be at around 240f + on a 68f day
rember there are a lot of factors to calculate in
Im fully ported charger, B16B, and with out cooling im at around 16psi

The cooler I run is just a bit smaller than an ITR full radiator with a system capacity of over 6 ltrs recirculating appx 15 times a minute

Alfa Turbo

I have run A2W on a 2.0 liter for ~15 years.

Here are a few things I have learned.

A large heat exchanger is not needed, for increased cooling efficiency just up the flow, i.e. more GPH. Bosch makes a good pump but you may be surprised how well a bilge pump from a boat can work!

I see very stable IAT's whether at idle or WOT @ +26*F over ambient. It takes about 40 minutes of somewhat spirited driving to get them there. I run just about 2 gallons of coolant in the system.

When off boost the inter-cooler also acts as a heat exchanger, taking energy (heat) out of the coolant!

And lastly, A2A guys just don't like A2W! Apparently (to them) it does not work well. If it did then the Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1, Shelby Mustang or Bugatti Veyron would use it... oh wait. (grin) Also of note Porsche used both A2A and A2W (at the same time) on versions of the 962 race car. And that was an "Endurance" race car.

Good luck with your project.

OneBadTurboCRV

Don't be so foolish to say that garbage snippet. If there was a reason for the cause more information would have been provided. Look at circuit racing Hondas, most don't even waste their time with this type of setup, and they have higher horsepower at that. Did you even look at the cars you listed? How many cars come with a dozen radiators from factory? How about the crazy oil system on the ZR-1? You are clearly comparing apples to oranges here. Look at the cost difference between even the cheapest one (Rustang) and a measily Civic. I would have hoped you would have had some "bang for your buck".

mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the info. what was your pump rated at? i have been looking at a bilge pump that flows 300~ gph. Its only $30 and has a 3 year warranty(for water flow only)

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

Meziere Remote Electric Water Pump does 20gpm but its a bit expensive. Its around $210 if memory serves. I went with this pump but my build has been halted for 6+ months & I haven't got to actually run it yet

mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

jeez! $210 for a pump!? thats a lot. I have been trying to figure out how much flow is really necessary. cant really find a good answer.

20gpm seems like a lot no? thats 1200gph!

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

Ha, yea its probably overkill but most of my setup is. I wanted to make sure my build was only done once & is upgradable from there. My power goal is only 450-500whp on pump and 600+ on race gas or until the turbo is out of breath. I am running a 5 gallon water cell in the trunk, pwr barrel intercooler & decently sized front mount heat exchanger. Its something that will be 99% street driven so I wanted to make sure it would be fine on hot summer days etc, not much track time planned for my build. I can say a2w can be more expensive depending on the parts used. I went w/AN fittings for everything so the price definitely adds up.

Alfa Turbo

I've been using a Mayfair Marine pump... 500GPH which is 8GPM. The Bosch flows 317GPH or 5.3GPM depending on where you read it. They run about $27 and last 2-4 years on average. Mine runs continuously when the engine is running so life expectancy is shorter but I get the continuous cooling benefit. Most factory setups I have seen only run the recirculation pump when under boost.

Next time it goes I may try the 1000GPH model. I saw a write up on a FI'd Lotus in England. They were having high IAT's and using different heat exchangers would have been a heavy lift as would installing larger coolant hoses since they were front mounted in a small car that is mid engined. Long story short they doubled pump capacity and the IAT's were in range of what they were looking for.

mitsuman

iTrader: (1)

ya i can see just how expensive it can be. but it doesnt have to be if on a budget, like me. But good ****. i like your set up!

Good info. thank you! i may go with something a little higher then. although at $30 bux, its easy to justify experimenting.

Alfa Turbo

Mitsu... you will like this read, http://efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.ph...er=asc&start=0

And here is a link to the monster they made. Neversatisfied might not find enough bang for the buck though, but then again they have more bucks than he does! (tic)

http://efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8162

OneBadTurboCRV

Funny child... last time I checked, my ZR1 cost over twice as much as a Lotus... Go back to your corner.

Alfa Turbo

Maybe some... not THIS Lotus!

(Do you take everything so personally? That's a rough way to live life bra!)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I have to admit, that comment was kinda f*cked up.. I know he's older and probably has a few investments worth more than most of our entire net worth, but man.. that actually was a little personal. Not all humor is universally understood.

Not defending anyone but..Just sayin'