Supacharge

well i tried searching but didnt find anything that really helped.

the car is a 2000 Civic Si with a swapped ls/vtec turbo motor in it. since it has been tuned on hondata, it has been converted to obdI. well we have tried to do everything to get this thing to pass.

trial 1: took off the turbo, put the cat back on, stock injectors, stock exhaust mani, stock ECU (obdII) and it threw a CEL. cant pass w/ a CEL on. it was a knock sensor code, which my motor didnt have or use. howard at rlz tried to trick it by adding a knock sensor in several places to see if the code would go away. no luck.

so im asking you honda gurus out there .... are there any other methods of passing this thing??? i really dont want to have to buy a stock motor or another car. id like to keep this thing street legal.

also, would the DMV allow obdI testing of an obdII car??? maybe i could put a cat on it and get it passed by those standards. i have no clue
thanks

inspyral

You can drill and tap the right side hole of the top alternator bracket and thread a knock sensor in there, instead of trying to "tirck" it.

zexxbo

what kind of cams does it have?
putting down nearly 600whp in a car and trying to get it to pass smog is very difficult. im sure you can pick up a b16 relatively cheap, errr at least not that much more expensive then it will cost you to br1be a smog place.
not sure if youll be able to pass the ls/vtec to begin with, but even obd1 at that- youve got a long road ahead of you and it does involve spending some benjamins.

Supacharge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by inspyral &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You can drill and tap the right side hole of the top alternator bracket and thread a knock sensor in there, instead of trying to "tirck" it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

we tried all that. i guess what i meant by "tricking it" is that we tried to put in a knock sensor in several different places. every place we tried didnt work.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by zeimbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what kind of cams does it have?
putting down nearly 600whp in a car and trying to get it to pass smog is very difficult. im sure you can pick up a b16 relatively cheap, errr at least not that much more expensive then it will cost you to br1be a smog place.
not sure if youll be able to pass the ls/vtec to begin with, but even obd1 at that- youve got a long road ahead of you and it does involve spending some benjamins.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ctr cams in the car (however we tried it when it had stock b16 cams as well). no good there either. maybe even harder now with different ones??? dunno. also i didnt want to post up any incriminating information, but last year i "got around" the testing by a means that supposedly no longer can be done.

anyhow, id rather not do a motor swap to make it pass. too much trouble. so maybe i'll just let it sit as a non-street legal car for a while til i can put this motor into a 95- car. haha that sucks, but its all good in the world of hondas.

any more ideas are welcome, b/c im definitely out of ideas

JSPECSIR

put your original ecu, insp. sticker and license plate on another car of the same making. take your registration, and go have it inspected. come home and swap everything back. or register it in warren county. they dont check any emmisions, not even obdII. and ive verified this with dmv. there should be plenty of po boxes somewhere in warren county.

bigbadboy

or just move down here so you won't have to worry abt emmisions

Supacharge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JSPECSIR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">put your original ecu, insp. sticker and license plate on another car of the same making. take your registration, and go have it inspected. come home and swap everything back. or register it in warren county. they dont check any emmisions, not even obdII. and ive verified this with dmv. there should be plenty of po boxes somewhere in warren county.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not a bad idea. the only thing then would be in figured out how to get the inspection sticker onto the other car. im pretty sure when you peel it off, it "voids" it by some means. then just have to hope a cop didnt see that when i get pulled over for excessing blowing of my valve haha.

there's a few countys close to me that dont do emissions. i will also look into re-registration. thanks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bigbadboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">or just move down here so you won't have to worry abt emmisions </TD></TR></TABLE>
i got about 3 more mos in SC and im outa here .... back to NC for work or else i would do that

rmcdaniels

A 2000 car must pass OBD2 inspection in NC, they won't do an OBD1 inspection because you did a motor swap. They don't check emissions on OBD2 cars, they just plug into the OBD2 port and read the codes. The CEL must not be set and the ready codes must be set. On a 2000 Si, it should have also failed the crankshaft fluctuation sensor, but maybe that doesn't set the CEL. I'd figure out how to mount the knock sensor so it works and get it inspected with the OBD2 ECU. That's what I used to do, I just put the stock injectors back in it and stayed out of boost for the 40 minutes of driving that it took to set the ready codes. They didn't care if it had a turbo installed as long as the codes were right.

Supacharge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A 2000 car must pass OBD2 inspection in NC, they won't do an OBD1 inspection because you did a motor swap. They don't check emissions on OBD2 cars, they just plug into the OBD2 port and read the codes. The CEL must not be set and the ready codes must be set. On a 2000 Si, it should have also failed the crankshaft fluctuation sensor, but maybe that doesn't set the CEL. I'd figure out how to mount the knock sensor so it works and get it inspected with the OBD2 ECU. That's what I used to do, I just put the stock injectors back in it and stayed out of boost for the 40 minutes of driving that it took to set the ready codes. They didn't care if it had a turbo installed as long as the codes were right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

right on. i drove it around for the ready codes to set and what not. no matter what, it still threw the knock sensor code. where did you mount your sensor? we tried it on several places on the block. does it just need to read a certain frequency? i saw above someone said on the alternator. is that what you did too?

rmcdaniels

No, I had an OBD2 block. I'd imagine anywhere you could drill/tap on the side of the block to mount it securely would work, how did you attach yours to the block?

Quad-Damage

why not pay for a smog hookup ez

Supacharge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, I had an OBD2 block. I'd imagine anywhere you could drill/tap on the side of the block to mount it securely would work, how did you attach yours to the block?</TD></TR></TABLE>

we attached the knock sensor to a bolt, and screwd that into one of the random bolt holes in the ls block. we tried it in a few spots. it's been over a year, and i dont remember exactly which spots we tried.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Quad-Damage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why not pay for a smog hookup ez </TD></TR></TABLE>
as far as i had known when the testing was done, the computere DID NOT check VIN #s. but now i was told that the DMV emission computers DO run VIN #s now, so i cant pay off a computer. i was told its out of the tester's hands now.

does anyone know for certain that the VIN #s are processed now? or was i just told that??

rmcdaniels

On a 2000 OBD2 ECU Honda did not have VIN query enabled. I forget the name of the OBD standard, but it is in the newer ECU's. The tester must enter the VIN manually for a 2000 Honda.

Supacharge

maybe there's hope afterall. can i ask you how you know this? or where i could get that helpful fact verified? thanks for the help

JSPECSIR

usually you can heat the sticker with a heat gun and remove it intact. also there was a write up a while back about a guy with a block and no knock sensor hole. he used a piezo electric phone ringer or similar device from radio shack. all he had to do was zip tie it to the fuel rail and the ecu read the signal and got rid of the cel. oh and roger my cousin just had dmv down at his shop over a 99 civic because the vin in the ecu didnt match the cars registration. i think he just told em the old ecu was bad and they replaced it with one from a salvage yard though. but anyway he said it was pulling the vin up on the computer. i dunno maybe the inspection computers are different. anyway good luck with your inspection.

rmcdaniels

That's interesting, I had my '99 Si inspected and they could not pull the VIN from the ECU, the guy had to get it from the plate on the dash. I was doing some research on OBD2 simulators and looked up a lot of the standards at one point, but I ended up just selling my EK and getting an EG. My life is much simpler now.

Supacharge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JSPECSIR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">usually you can heat the sticker with a heat gun and remove it intact. also there was a write up a while back about a guy with a block and no knock sensor hole. he used a piezo electric phone ringer or similar device from radio shack. all he had to do was zip tie it to the fuel rail and the ecu read the signal and got rid of the cel. oh and roger my cousin just had dmv down at his shop over a 99 civic because the vin in the ecu didnt match the cars registration. i think he just told em the old ecu was bad and they replaced it with one from a salvage yard though. but anyway he said it was pulling the vin up on the computer. i dunno maybe the inspection computers are different. anyway good luck with your inspection.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is what i was told. they told me that it would pass inspection etc etc, but then all of a sudden the DMV would show up wondering what is going on with the VIN #s not matching up.

also thats pretty crazy about the phone ringer. haha how the hell do people come up with some of these things???


well thanks for the help everyone. if we figure something out i'll let you all know about it. i think for now, w/ the time and money i have, it's going to sit as an "offroad" car only for a while.

rmcdaniels

That makes sense, all the knock sensor is is a piezoelectric microphone. And piezoelectric devices are reversible, so a piezoelectric speaker from a phone would act as a microphone if you wired it up as one. It would probably be worth dropping a couple $ at Radio Shack to test it out.

1158

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A 2000 car must pass OBD2 inspection in NC, they won't do an OBD1 inspection because you did a motor swap. They don't check emissions on OBD2 cars, they just plug into the OBD2 port and read the codes. The CEL must not be set and the ready codes must be set. On a 2000 Si, it should have also failed the crankshaft fluctuation sensor, but maybe that doesn't set the CEL. I'd figure out how to mount the knock sensor so it works and get it inspected with the OBD2 ECU. That's what I used to do, I just put the stock injectors back in it and stayed out of boost for the 40 minutes of driving that it took to set the ready codes. They didn't care if it had a turbo installed as long as the codes were right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is only true in certain NC counties. Check the NCDOT site for which counties do emissions bullshit. I just got my car inspected with my Power FC still installed (98 GSR OBDII). Had no problems...they didn't even catch my pcv setup, I'm using a catch can but it looks like it's routed correctly(I kept the black box and hollowed out the pcv valve).

a1320addict

iTrader: (1)

In NJ, if you fail, you have x amount of time to get the car to pass. But, if you spend x amount of money trying to fix the car, and it still won't pass, the car is emissions exempt.

Are you having the car inspected at a private facility or a DMV?

Something I always wondered was, if you damage the OBD2 port, blame it on theft/vandalism, they won't be able to hook up to the ECU. Take out the CEL bulb from the cluster. Might get lucky.

And the whole OBD2 "VIN in the ecu" is garbage. All that the state gets to verify is the inspector inputting the VIN himself, so if you find someone who's laid back, your golden.

Emissions sucks, greenhouse effect is already in full swing, what's a few thousand Honda's not passing going to change.

Supacharge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by a1320addict &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In NJ, if you fail, you have x amount of time to get the car to pass. But, if you spend x amount of money trying to fix the car, and it still won't pass, the car is emissions exempt.

Are you having the car inspected at a private facility or a DMV?

Something I always wondered was, if you damage the OBD2 port, blame it on theft/vandalism, they won't be able to hook up to the ECU. Take out the CEL bulb from the cluster. Might get lucky.

And the whole OBD2 "VIN in the ecu" is garbage. All that the state gets to verify is the inspector inputting the VIN himself, so if you find someone who's laid back, your golden.

Emissions sucks, greenhouse effect is already in full swing, what's a few thousand Honda's not passing going to change.</TD></TR></TABLE>

in NC, every other gas station does emissions testing. its just finding one and convincing them that they do not check VINs that is the hard part. every one i go to says that they DO check VINs, but im pretty sure they are just being told that so they will be afraid to hook up a non-passing car.

BlueSi2k

I know for a fact that the OBD2 defines a standard for storing the VIN in the ecu. I also know that the testing equipment in NY DOES ask for the VIN from the ecu(dont ask how i know ). Now the ecu can simply say it does not support that feature. However i am not sure if it will pass this way.

rmcdaniels

OBD2 mode 9 provides for VIN querying. Not all testers support Mode 9 and not all ECU's support it, although most stuff that's 2002 or newer should, as well as anything that supports Immo-3 immobilization. CARB officially required VIN querying by 2005, so everything 2005 or later will support it since all manufacturers build their stuff to CARB for the US market, but before that it's not set in stone that a vehicle will answer a VIN query.

kyden

96-00 civics will not pull up a vin # from the obd2 check

Supacharge

here's an update for anyone with this problem.

after speaking with the NC DMV, they sent me to license and theft who said:

1. get the car obdII emissions tested. must have proof of failure.

2. show proof of spending 200.00 in an attempt to make the car pass.

3. get the car re-tested and show proof of again failing to pass.

4. bring the car and documentation to them, and they will decide whether or not to "waive" your emissions testing.

so looks like im going to try this. i'll let you know how it turns out. im def. not getting my hopes up though