jmal1919

I'm trying to get more power at the same boost level. I've got a custom kit in the works which should give me an estimated 236whp 245wtq when it's all done. I figured if I bore out the throttle body to 68mm it would give me more flow which should help reach my end goal of ~250whp ~265wtq.

My question is it worth it to p&p the intake manifold? I don't plan on doing any head work because this is just for a street daily driver which will never see track life and the money needed to do it right, will go to posible rods and pistons if I ever feel the need to turn of the boost to 12psi max.

Any ideas?


Modified by jmal1919 at 9:39 PM 9/12/2003


Modified by jmal1919 at 10:36 PM 9/12/2003

jmal1919

also, do you think 69mm is enough and 70mm would be too much?

Bailhatch

"an estimated 236 whp and 245wtq" ?!? Those are some pretty specific estimates you got there. Is that at sea level? what kind of humidity, 65.2% or so?

jmal1919

estimate came from this info:

"( ( psi / 14.7 ) + 1 ) stock output" which came out of HCI May 2003

and shop info regarding my planned setup.


just an estimate though also with average numbers from other f23 setups running 8psi

jmal1919

bump

jmal1919

nobody has an opinion?

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jmal1919 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">nobody has an opinion?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, because you have a silly way of figuring out how much power you're going to make. Think about it. There was a guy on here who made 508 WHP @ 18 psi. Do you really think his low compression stock cams car would make 230 WHP naturally aspirated? Put on the turbo kit, dyno it, then come and talk.

jmal1919

you don't get my point. I'm not talking NA, and that formula isn't for NA estimates, it is for FI ests. Read HCI May 2003 and then reply again if you don't like the numbers for the estimate

anyway, my goal is to make the most amount of power at 8psi, not 18, 22, whatever I figured to do that, the only way to do it is to increase the amount of power the motor puts out before boost, then any boost will be ontop of a higher base output

boosted92

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jmal1919 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you don't get my point. I'm not talking NA, and that formula isn't for NA estimates, it is for FI ests. Read HCI May 2003 and then reply again if you don't like the numbers for the estimate</TD></TR></TABLE>

First of all, I know what you're trying to say. My point was that the formula is pretty much totally irrelevant. So going by that formula, a supra with stock twins should make as much power @ 20 psi as a car with an SP74 @ 20 psi? Turbos make power by AIRFLOW, not boost, so it's a very inaccurate way to guess power. Read my example again. Going by the HCI formula to make 508 WHP @ 18 psi you would need to have a motor that makes about 230 WHP N/A to make 508 WHP with 18 pounds of boost. Like I said, go dyno it, then come talk.

jmal1919

look at the formula and math

if you input more than 14.7 as your boost level, then sure the formula is off.

I understand you on your point about the amount of necessary NA power, but the real underlying questions was is that is it worth it to p&p the intake manifold without out doing the head for the gain vs money

I plan to put the turbo on, tune/dyno it, then go from there. But it seems like I've got my answer, but correct me if I'm wrong.

If you p&p the head, and not the intake manifold, then it's not worth it.
If you p&p the intake manifold, but not the head, then it's not worth it.
If you bore out the throttle body, but not p&p the intake manifold and head, then it's not worth it.

Its like if you don't do all, then its not worth it.

ScandalousCivic

What's your budget here? you could make more power at same boost with nx cryo kit, turbo cams, bigger exhaust, or intake manifold. Personally, I don't think a bigger throttle body would be as dramatic as other listed mods.

scatuli

yeah your estimates are wrong i know you said that you read it out of hci but they are wrong and good luck slapping on a turbo and having more torque than hp.
(assuming you have a import right?)
and i agree with scandalouscivic, i doubt that a bigger throttle body will do muich of anything for you

jmal1919

trying to keep under about 8k or so which includes the turbo setup.

I considered the turbo cams, but am unsure.
Not going to 3" because to me the gain up top would not be worth it compared to the loss down low.
There are no choices for intake manifolds for the accord f23a1 engine, unless you know of one?

jmal1919

how are my numbers wrong? I know for the tq figure, may be off ( but not by much ), but for the hp figure, it's pretty close

"( ( psi / 14.7 ) + 1 ) stock hp"

me)
psi=8
stock whp=135 ( previous dyno with only a catback and k&n replacement filter)
((8/14.7) + 1 ) 135
(0.544217687074829931972789115646259 + 1 ) 135
(1.54421768707482993197278911564626)135
208.469387755102040816326530612245 whp

Add to that, the experience of tuners with the accord and boost +
2 1/2 dp
2 1/2 high flow cat
2 1/2 cat back
8lb flywheel ( I know doesn't make hp, just lets more reach the ground )
= 236 isn't too unrealistic at 8psi

I am going against the grain here and boostin an accord, not a civic, teg, etc..

And isn't the nature of a SOHC to produce more tq than hp?

ScandalousCivic

I was assuming it was b-series, for your case i wouldn't bother with intake manifold

jmal1919

curious, why wouldn't you bother with the intake manifold

mos

Theres better ways to spend your money than on TB and IM when you're only at the 200-250hp level. Some people have made twice that power on stock TB and IM. They will probably do very little to raise your horsepower.

Excelerate

Actually i have a 6th gen Accord w/ F-Max kit runnin at 9psi and i hit 220 whp and 240 ft/lb of torque. So it is possible to make more torque than horsepower on imports.

Overblown-Teg

Your formula is not right.. Or should I say it won't work. The VE on hondas goes through the roof when you boost them.. Here run these numbers on your formula and see why it doesn't work. stock gsr.. 5.5psi 250whp. it put down 150hp stock. According to your formula it should only make 205whp.

And to answer your question anything that will let more air into the engine or increase the density of the air will make more power. Bigger intake, cames, tb. All that stuff.. And 3" exhaust will make a faster car period..

Nextelbuddy

hey man thanx for that formula i have been looking all over for that formula.

Overblown-Teg

Nextel.. No **** its an estimate.. Thats what everyone is saying.. He is trying to say that formula is correct/accurate and what can he do to get the extra 14hp he is looking for. What me and everyone else is telling him is when he goes to the dyno he might very well already have his goal even though the formula says he won't.

btw the 14.7 is atmospheric pressure. Not something you adjust for how efficient your engine is.

jmal1919

I feel u

jmal1919

the formula is only an estimate and probably does not take into account other factors.

like I said before, it's not mine, but is good to get an estimate,