well you still have to use that dinky resistor box from an EF with AEM too, the "injector driver" is just a fancy *** one that lots of people dont use. Ill prolly just get s300.

 

A peak and hold injector driver is not the same as an inline resistor. A saturated injector driver sends a low current signal to open the injector. A peak and hold injector driver sends a high current signal to get the injector open, and then holds that signal at a lower current for the duration of the injector opening time. A peak and hold driver will open a low impedance injector quicker and more accurately than a saturated driver and a resistor. The resistor only serves to keep from burning the injector drivers up in a saturated system with low impedance injectors.

 

well I know pre orders for neptune are out and $635 for the the board installed isnt a bad price. I personally havent seen what it can do or peoples opinions about it BUT i havent looked. I know hondata is proven and tuners are plenty.

Tony, we had talked about traileing the car to your facility for the next go round. The only thing that I would worry about is tuning before each race. That is going to be very hard to do unless well just added/ removed fuel and timing and data log. You tune hondata correct? We looked on your site and most of the cars on there are motec.

 

We do use Motec on most of our race cars, but i do a ton of hondata and neptune stuff as well.

There's no reason the car should need to be tuned before each race. It's always good to go over datalogs and further dial in the tune to varying track conditions, but once it's been dynoed it shouldn't need to be again unless drastic changes are made.

 

okay, well I have heard of people doing it, but I understand the change in temp, humidity and all that only take minor tweaks. Honestly what would you run, granted motec is out of the question. hondata, aem, neptune, anything else?

p.s. neptune is Mac based correct, we would have to dual boot with anything else.

 

At this point, the S300 is hard to beat. PWM boost control and onboard datalogging are almost a must have on a drag car.

 

PWM boost control? I am not familiar with the short term, stage boost control maybe? I guess the current boost controller could be sold to aid to the cost of the management, considering most control boost now anyway.

 

PWM = pulse width modulated

The ecu sends a signal to an electronic boost control solenoid to control boost. With the s300 you can do boost by gear and also have a seperate switch to toggle from "high" boost by gear to "low" boost by gear. Good for street tire and slick boost maps.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPOOLINmatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there was no boost spike thanks to the world electronics controller, i just happened to record the data thru the whole run, the boost never went over 27 psi the engine was tuned to 30 psi multiple times.

fuel is supplied by a sumped tank into -8 lines, a1000, 1600 precisions, aem rail, aem big regulator, -6 return into factory feed line. I doubt it was the fuel pump.

gas was a hair under 1/2 tank, i had topped it off a little earlier.

edit for the post above, chrome pro IS DATA LOGGABLE AND I COULD DO THAT. I just wasnt doing it at the time. </TD></TR></TABLE>


cool... most guys we tune use the reg. crome...w/o datalog for basic 10-11psi max. use it next time, it'll feed good info..good luck guys...

 

I'm leaning towards the 1600cc injectors doing something...hell, from what I remember you arent running any kind of injector driver box right? My guess is that the drivers in the ECU were SCREAMING hot and either began to overheat and caused the injectors to ultimately supply too little fuel or failed completely. Obviously just a guess, but how many people are actually running 1600cc injectors without a driver box on a stock Honda ECU...not many if any.
.................................................. .................................................t hat is the first i have heard about that iv seen a decent amount of big injectors run with hondata with 0 problems

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPOOLINmatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">JDOGG - "lol +1 for cp pistons "

+1 in what way, them self destructing, or do they just plain out suck because i never had a single issue with JE for a long time. </TD></TR></TABLE>


hehe... we use JE only pistons. Personally I've seen CP fail one too many times(self destruction, corners burning up, etc...), but then again that's just my experience..to others CP may have work well, but I'm stuck on JE especially the coated edition ones...!!!

 

The size of the injector has nothing to do with how hot it will get or how much load it will put on the injector drivers. The resistance is all that determines that, and most 1600's are around 4.5 ohms, pretty high for a peak and hold inj. The problem running them w/o a driver is at low rpm the opening time is so short, that it's hard to get good consistent fueling.

For what it's worth, i've done 1600's w/o a resistor box with hondata w/o problems.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A peak and hold injector driver is not the same as an inline resistor. A saturated injector driver sends a low current signal to open the injector. A peak and hold injector driver sends a high current signal to get the injector open, and then holds that signal at a lower current for the duration of the injector opening time. A peak and hold driver will open a low impedance injector quicker and more accurately than a saturated driver and a resistor. The resistor only serves to keep from burning the injector drivers up in a saturated system with low impedance injectors.</TD></TR></TABLE>


tony so the motec has a peak and hold driver similar to the old DFI??? With hondata it's a saturated driver so to use low impedence injector the resistors have to be utilized like you mentioned to keep from overheating the drivers themselves....Do you know if there is another solution to achieve p/h driver w/ hondata? probably not!!!

 

pics up in a min. i just looked at his motor, seems like his fuel filter was clogged or the injectors fucked up.

Cylinders 3 and 4 are MELTED, 1 and 2 look normal. something caused those 2 cylinders to get hot, an it looks like starvation of fuel

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BEEYOND &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


tony so the motec has a peak and hold driver similar to the old DFI??? With hondata it's a saturated driver so to use low impedence injector the resistors have to be utilized like you mentioned to keep from overheating the drivers themselves....Do you know if there is another solution to achieve p/h driver w/ hondata? probably not!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Motec has peak and hold drivers, but they're much better than the old DFI stuff.

FJO and AEM both sell peak and hold injector driver boxes.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Motec has peak and hold drivers, but they're much better than the old DFI stuff.

FJO and AEM both sell peak and hold injector driver boxes.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have used the new AEM box. Worked great

Unless an ignition map is posted can't tell much. Even then we have no idea if the ICM was bad, injectors failed, etc.

 

Crome can def. support 600+ hp w/ no problem. something must have went wrong with the fuel delivery system.

but for me personally, i wouldnt try to run anything above 1000cc injectors on a stock honda ecu.

 

PICS:

2 bad cylinders 3/4


2 good cylinders 1/2


As you can see, **** got REALLY HOT. Number 4 is detroyed, number 3 has started to implode. Numbers 1/2 are fine IMO.

looks like the culprit was starvation for fuel, prob from a clogged filter or an injector clogging.

 

amazingly burnt

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecKiDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
looks like the culprit was starvation for fuel, prob from a clogged filter or an injector clogging.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Easier to blame the tuner

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 0x64 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Easier to blame the tuner </TD></TR></TABLE>

like i said i was never pointing fingers, i was just trying to get as much INPUT as i could. I dont claim to know everything, i was merely looking for others comments an suggestions.

I thought the ECU could have failed, but i never doubted our tuner. Our tuner was hesitant to push the car, i was merely asking if too little timing could cause pistons to melt. but that theory was quickly tossed out.

 

did you actually find something in the filter?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecKiDD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

like i said i was never pointing fingers, i was just trying to get as much INPUT as i could. I dont claim to know everything, i was merely looking for others comments an suggestions.

I thought the ECU could have failed, but i never doubted our tuner. Our tuner was hesitant to push the car, i was merely asking if too little timing could cause pistons to melt. but that theory was quickly tossed out.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Was joking with you

 

i havnt been down to mess with it since the "discovery", maybe tomorrow.

he said he found something in the filter though, bunch of crap, which is really shitty, i have 2 filters dammit.

 

probably wouldnt be a bad idea to drop the tank and clean that **** out, even if there is nothing to be seen. Time for more filter screens I suppose.