I believe it may have been full race that actually started the top mount setups for b series, with the testing and info that the proper design spools the turbo faster. Without getting scientific the manifolds we had made were pieced together so it fit well and had clearance where needed etc. This resulted in comparable output to the ram horn with just the manifold change and 3" downpipe modified to fit. There was at least another dozen or so top mount setups I have installed. With precision 62, gt40r etc and none displayed poor spool characteristics. Still not my favorite manifold design, I won't put one on my car

Looked at schisters dyno chart the only thing I can think I that there was previously a leak or something else causing the loss. I can't see just manifold doing that. I accidentally left a wastegate ring out once and it did that.

To forever judge a manifold design as poor spooling because of a single experience/dyno chart is not an accurate conclusion in my opinion. Let's apply the scientific method before casting in stone.

 

People have argued back and forth over that dyno since I first posted it (like 4 years ago now). I assure you, the ONLY thing that changed was the manifold. I had a topmount, the wastegate elbow cracked on it, then i went to an SLS miniram, retuned and bam...nothing more. It was a better turbo/manifold combination with the shorty than with the topmount

 

No disrespect intended here, please understand, but we've seen these changes in results from before over the years when matching a proper styled manifold to the turbo charger and racing that's being used first hand. Its nothing newly discovered, but should not be ignored. some of the more usable methodologies of showing such a result change is not on a dyno unfortunately. (Usually from a turbocharger speed gauge couple with a boost threshold/rpm plot as a log on a lap). In many cases the exhaust manifold style (volume vs. velocity) has a LOT to do with why the turbo behaved the way it does.. Perhaps I'm being presumptuous , but you can't really rely on drag racing thinking to work with street fighter and circuit quick exhaust velocity-based setups.

So..



I remember that.. This is why you see NO active circuit runners with that topmount style manifold. Many people forget the entire correlation between exhaust energy VOLUME, vs. VELOCITY with a particular set turbocharger. I remember that back in '05 or '07, when Schister66 came to me with this issue. this change in manifold solved the problem because of the turbocharger that he was running at the time.

 

I need to make a choice, who nibud can recommend a good manifold?
I want to use power steering, Air Con and conventional radiator.
I'm counting on the power of approximately 400hp.
MiniRam I need?

 

blueridge makes an ac/ps compatible ramhorn manifold. brandon told me it fits up to a 62mm turbo. not 100% on radiator if your trying to keep a full sized radiator. I know turbo-ls made over 400 on a spa topmount with ac ps and full-size rad.

 

Spoolin Performance AC mini-ram

http://www.spoolinperformance.com/st...products_id=60

 

Spoolin' performance tubular manifold or Mini-ram. No need for a Kooks "Ramhorn" just for 400whp.

 

mini ram won't keep ac unless specifically designed to keep it.

mini rams place the turbo about level with the top of the oil pan, the ac mini rams take a pretty serious downpipe to keep ac but it is very doable, depending on turbo size/turbine housing design

It's the only manifold style I would consider for a daily driven car or a circuit car, you have a manifold that flows well and keeps exhaust temp up and exhaust gas velocity higher than longer runner designs, the best of both worlds for a smaller turbo turbo car, especially on the street.

 

true story, drag racing is basically full load... (obviously, I've never seen someone go down the track at half throttle lol) so the turbine never has enough time to spin down, even between shifts. when you consider the mass/momentum of the turbine wheel, especially with larger turbos and most precision units, it keeps the turbo spinning between shifts at a higher rpm than smaller, lighter units

circuit racing obviously has a much different driving style and turbo requirements. the longer runner manifolds aren't conducive to road courses (especially smaller, slower, tighter courses) where you need the exhaust velocity to get the turbo back up to speed as quick as possible to help pull you out of the corners. this normally means shorter runner manifolds and smaller turbos/housing sizes when compared to even the mildest of drag cars

lag is more noticeable on a road course as you have a lot of situations where you'll be at light or partial throttle for a good bit of time and you have lots of throttle modulation in corners and on straights to maintain traction, so lots of lag is bad but instant response can also be a pain in the ***, as you'll be fighting the car and modulating the throttle constantly to keep the car hooked.

so you have to balance turbo selection, housing size, manifold runner length and diameter to get the optimal setup for your driving style and circuit layout. this is much more critical than with drag cars as once the turbo reaches maximum pressure it basically stays there till the end of the run.

 

It is my understanding - on that web page is a mini ram, which fit my requirements for B18C?

 

lol at the information in this thread.

 

explain to in simple words, and I very badly understand English.

 

hum... just from my experiance, going from mini-ram to ff there was very little difference in spool. same tuner, fuel, engine displacement, compression, similar boost controller...but i'm not sure if timing was the same or not.


for me it was maybe a 200-250rpm difference in reaching my target boost.

 

The dyno plot that Schister66 posted is irrelevant. In other words, it's useless and it proves nothing.

Half the people that commented have no idea on what they are talking about.

 

A dyno where the only thing changed was the manifold is irrelevant? What world do you live on?

 

Another reply from shodan where I am "drag racing thinking" but 95% of my experience was from street car builds, circuit and dyno results. The 30r is the most common around here, having tried this turbo and housings on countless manifold layouts, top mount, front mount, ram horn. According accepted h-t wisdom this should have resulted in night and day spool characteristics but I never saw anything worth making a fuss over for the 4-500 whp street setups. Of course each build and driving type has to have its parts matched, that's common sense.

Most circuit runners are not going to choose some bs top mount manifold because it's a waste of material and not practical in almost any way.

Now I know why nobody posts here anymore.

 

Think about the graph and what's going on. It's not comparing apples to apples, even though you may think so.

Did it spool sooner, yup. But do you really know why?

Manifold design, material, efficiency all come into play.

And if you think a 3255 spools that late on a top mount manifold vs. a ramhorn, you have to think a little harder. I've had that exact turbo on a top mount manifold. I know exactly what it does.

Perhaps you missed this....
Also, read the thread he linked.... Had a CCFab manifold. Enough said. Hoax.

 

it would be hard to make a 3255 unresponsive lol

 

I find it difficult to understand this.
it comes to about the designs or Manufacturer?
Please show in the picture, that will work well, and what not to choose.

 

ccfab. those were the days

if you weren't around back then here or on hmt it's hard to explain. one of those you had to be there deals.

 

You're welcome. But that knowledge is more nonsensical than you think. that's why there's a thread in the FAQs regarding it. Call it H-T "wisdom" as you will, but as common as the GT30R is (you're not the only one with that kind of experience with the N111 Platform ), the 300-500whp setup is the most common setup that's used.. enough to "make a fuss" for most B-series and D-series street setups that are multi-tasking for both street warrior and (__place your type of racing here___).

I'm just calling a duck, a "duck" here.. That's why I stated I was being presumptuous because , my friend, you always seem to come with that approach from the experience you're projecting.

I'm not saying I'm trying to prove you wrong to be right.. But the conclusory posts that you make lately tend to seem rather vague in their conception, (aka falls into the same category those that use these systems for "drag racing"). Especially when in the situation you claim, you don't necessary have all the facts on that particular argument. That's why we butt heads a lot.. Not because your theory isn't sound, but has no summation, or even specific examples to the contrary.

So, if you think no one responds, then fine. But why take it personal? Enlighten those of us that have "strayed" from your logic.. don't walk away in disgust... that's just.. juvenile.

 

I wouldn't go that far. I remember the day that this happened... vividly.

 

Yes, I retuned...as would anyone who had half an idea what they were doing. I dont see how that fact is surprising. I went to the same tuner, used the same fuel, and tuned on the same boost pressure, with a different manifold.

I completely forgot that topmount I had was a CCFab gem...its probably a collectible at this point . It was a decent manifold...not entirely a piece of crap like you think. It certainly didnt suit the GT3255 very well.

She was a beauty lol

 

Hey now, I had a CCFab ramhorn back in the day. Made 400whp on a Dseries with it.

But now that I make my own stuff... yeah... that manifold was terrible lol.

 

I ran the same turbo with a topmount as well. There was something else that was wrong and that's why you had bogus results. The test is not accurate. That's what I'm getting at here.