SOHCD16y8

Ok guys here is the setup first of all,

Benson Sleeved Block
Cp's
Eagles
Built Head
Precision 1000cc injectors
Walbro 255
E85
Sc61

Well I had my turbo off for a rebuild since it was getting quite old and the bearings were long gone. When the motor was assembled the rings were gapped on the large side but I didnt have time to wait so I just rolled with it. Therefore I thought this was a good time to pull the motor and re-ring it.

Now for the problem, when I pulled the injectors they had this crazy rubber like crap inside the nozzles. cylinde 4 was the worst and they got cleaner until #1 which is almost perfect. Then I took off the intake mani and saw the intake ports. They have this aweful build-up that feels like hard rubber.

What the hell is causing this? Im guessing something is being brought in with the fuel but what? The filter is relatively new and so is the feed line to the rail. The fuel in the filter looks completely clean as does the rail. Also the pre-screen in the injectors are nice and white and normal. Whatever is happening is occuring inside the injector and then hardening on its way out.

Here are some pics of whats going on.
















Im am happy the turbo died on me when it did, there is no sign of Det on the pistons and everything looks fine. I was very lucky an injector didnt clog.


What do you think I should do? Im thinking a new OEM filter and also adding an edelbrock in line filter after that. Then I plan on pulling the plugs and injectors every 50 ,iles or so for a while to see whats going on. This isnt the first car I have done E85 on and have never seen this before. Thats my car for you though.

stewie8apie

Also, the substance on the injectors was more "gooey" and when it gets into the head it hardens and turns into a rubbery material.

Strangest thing I've ever seen.

tony413

if your running E85 how do you know its not eatting some of the teflon in your steel braid lines

redzcstandardhatch

POSITIVE its not coolant?


i'd change all rubber fuel lines...

teflon would not be eaten by e85....it'd be the rubber, wouldnt it?

Suprdave

Looks like liquified rubber.

SOHCD16y8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if your running E85 how do you know its not eatting some of the teflon in your steel braid lines </TD></TR></TABLE>

Teflon is not eaten up by E85. The lines are also alcohol comptable, I made sure of that.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redzcstandardhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">POSITIVE its not coolant?


i'd change all rubber fuel lines...

teflon would not be eaten by e85....it'd be the rubber, wouldnt it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Adam- what rubber lines are even in the car? I checked my return line and it was fine (also is fuel line which is some weird material not rubber I thought) and the line coming up is a steel hard line. The only other place I can think of is that short link from the fuel pump that you use.

How could coolant cause that? Also how would it make it into the injectors?

SOHCD16y8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like liquified rubber.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It feels like it too, I dont know where it could be coming from though. I also dont know how it could make it through the inlet screen on the injector no problem and then form on the out. The rest of the fuel lines seem perfectly fine.

Laserjock

might have fuel incompatible lines. see post below

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2022169

stewie8apie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Laserjock &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">might have fuel incompatible lines. see post below

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2022169</TD></TR></TABLE>

He has all OEM lines except for one that is rated for alcohols.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stewie8apie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

He has all OEM lines except for one that is rated for alcohols.</TD></TR></TABLE>

why not run the car on regular gas and see if the problem then youll know if its the E85 eatting away at the lines or not

stewie8apie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

why not run the car on regular gas and see if the problem then youll know if its the E85 eatting away at the lines or not </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what we are planning on doing. Also, I didn't think about the walbro line. It could be that the walbro line is melting away, passing through the filter, and not showing up until the injectors because it isn't hot enough for it to caramelize.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stewie8apie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's what we are planning on doing. Also, I didn't think about the walbro line. It could be that the walbro line is melting away, passing through the filter, and not showing up until the injectors because it isn't hot enough for it to caramelize.</TD></TR></TABLE>

SOHCD16y8

Bump to the top for more help. Does anyone have any ideas as to why cylinder 2 would be dirty and cylinder 1 completely clean? Could coolant getting in cause something like thise?

redzcstandardhatch

like i said on ef, its a complete guess..but since you were loosing some coolant to the IM (or thought), maybe its a crazy reaction with coolant/e85/heat...

that'd have to be a TON of rubber being melted away in a hose, and a filter would 100% pick it up, IMO

SOHCD16y8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redzcstandardhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">like i said on ef, its a complete guess..but since you were loosing some coolant to the IM (or thought), maybe its a crazy reaction with coolant/e85/heat...

that'd have to be a TON of rubber being melted away in a hose, and a filter would 100% pick it up, IMO</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what im starting to think. I was definitely loosing coolant from that gay *** Hondata Intake gasket. Im going to go through the entire fuel syetme and check for bad lines, but i dont see how it could mix so well.

I am also going to be talking to RC and sending them my injectors. If they show up clean before the tip where they spray it just may be some crazy reaction. I was really just hoping someone else has seen something like this before.

redzcstandardhatch

yeah, pull the pump and check that first section of rubber, that'd be the only one i'd worry about if the rest is factory ...but thats a lot of rubber to liquefy, if the filters looked good...and the car would run like crap if that crap was coming from the injectors... they cannot spray crap like that without cloggin...

Tippyman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redzcstandardhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, pull the pump and check that first section of rubber, that'd be the only one i'd worry about if the rest is factory ...but thats a lot of rubber to liquefy, if the filters looked good...and the car would run like crap if that crap was coming from the injectors... they cannot spray crap like that without cloggin...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Autoworks has a similar problem as this when his Walbro's hose was not the right kind for the gas he was using. It looked like a pile of black goo when he yanked it out.

stewie8apie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tippyman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Autoworks has a similar problem as this when his Walbro's hose was not the right kind for the gas he was using. It looked like a pile of black goo when he yanked it out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't think it's the walbro because like Adam (redzc...) said, that would have to be a lot of hose eaten to cause the amount of substance we found. Also, others have been using the walbro with e85 with no problems. We also checked the return line (which is oem and rubber just like the walbro line) and it showed no signs of deterioration at all. I would think that if the walbro line was eaten up by the e85, then the return line would do the same.

Yesterday when we pulled off the water pump, it had the same substance on it as the top of the pistons had which led me to believe that it was coming from coolant and not fuel.

I agree that it's not fuel.

redzcstandardhatch

what kind of coolant?

Kyle R

iTrader: (1)

Very strange. Interested to hear what ended up being the culprit.

SOHCD16y8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stewie8apie &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Yesterday when we pulled off the water pump, it had the same substance on it as the top of the pistons had which led me to believe that it was coming from coolant and not fuel.

I agree that it's not fuel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually after looking at other pumps I had laying around that is the normal material that forms on the pumps blades. I scratched a bit off with my finger nail and it just has that weird/ light stuff that you get from coolant circulating.

However I can see very easily how when mixed with something it could react with this "resin" (whatever chemical it may be) and do something weird.

Adam, it is Prestone Coolant mixed with distilled water. Both fresh from the store.

redzcstandardhatch

i'd run water wetter/straight water...and not have an intake leak! hehe

SOHCD16y8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redzcstandardhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd run water wetter/straight water...and not have an intake leak! hehe</TD></TR></TABLE>

I may do that this time around. I was thinking about changing it over but didnt because it was leaking. Im going to be calling you up tomorrow to sand down my intake mani flange on your belt saner most likely. Im also going back to stock non-gay Hondata Gaskets.

redzcstandardhatch

cool cool...

i wont be around much, but you can try to call...sara will be in the hospital the next few days.. jeremy will be around

Tippyman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redzcstandardhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd run water wetter/straight water...and not have an intake leak! hehe</TD></TR></TABLE>

What would any drawbacks of running this be? I was thinking about it when my D is finally turboed.