calib17a

My DA had been overheating intermittently since I changed from a full size Fluidyne rad to a half size Koyo, but then it started overheating even quicker, until it wouldn't cool down at all just driving around the block. I had a feeling I blew the head gasket. I believe it wasn't just the radiator change that did it, I believe it just amplified the main problem. I had it towed last Friday to K G engineering in Huntington Beach, CA to have Kurt Gordan evaluate the motor and fix it.
A leak down test revealed a couple bad rings and a blown head gasket. Initially I had Vince from Golden Eagle assemble the block with all the new internals, then I had Ron Bergenholtz reinstall the block and the head in the engine bay of my da. This was done June of 2003. I didn't expect to have to tear down the motor so soon.


Previous to the initial build the stock b17a motor had gone through similar overheating issues. I asked Ron when he was going to reinstall the b17a head from my stock motor, that if it was warped from overheating on the origional setup to have the head milled to insure proper sealing. He told me it the head was fine and didn't need to be milled, so all he had done was hot tanked the head. I had a feeling he didn't want to wait for the down time to have that done and just wanted my car finished and out of the shop. After picking it up from the shop from Ron completing the install, it overheated on the way home, past 3/4 of the temp guage. I was like wtf?, newly sleeved block with all new internals? Then it started bellowing blue/white smoke out the exhaust. We'll it turns out he didn't put in a pvc valve on the breather box on the back of the block. It also had several oil leaks since the install; at the vtec solenoid, the oil pan (brand new), at the turbo return line, and at the driver's side of the block. I had bought a b18a1 block sleeved to 84mm, bore honed, line bored, balanced and polished crank, decked, and copper o-ringed the top of the cylinders by Golden Eagle, new Crower rods, new Arias pistons 8.5:1 cr, new AEBS head studs, new GE 84mm head gasket, brand new type R oil pump, new water pump, new oil pan and gasket, new timing belt. I didn't expect to have all those problems with all new parts! Turbo parts consisted of Drag mani, Turbonetics T3/T04E, Tial 38mm wg, hks ssbov, Spearco intercooler. I took it back to his shop several times and was never able to resolve any of the problems. As for the overheating he said I needed to get a GE electric water pump and Fluidyne radiator. He basically brushed me off by writing in the reciept "no warranty". As a matter of fact he hit me up on installing my motor when I was down at Golden Eagle. Because of being a well know veteran of the sport I trusted him. So 10 months later I'm having to tear down the motor again. What a way to treat a customer.

Just goes to show even if your installer's a veteran of the sport you think you should be able to trust an install to, be aware. I wonder what thier sponsor Mazda would say if they read this thread!? Please post your opinions about this.
I still believe lsvtec can be a reliable setup, just depends how competant the installer is.

MIKES

I read this thread and I was like damn man that really sucks. Truely sorry to hear about your misfortune, that really bites. Maybe you should do some of that MobbDeep stuff and just start punching people in there mouths for living.
If this is not your daily driver, I say leave it for a while and just clear your head man. Once your ready to deal with it just take it nice and slow. Thats what I do when I het frustrated. I just walk away and deal with it when I am mentally in a better state of mind. Good luck.

chirp3rd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MIKES &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I read this thread Maybe you should do some of that MobbDeep stuff and just start punching people in there mouths for living.</TD></TR></TABLE> thats great advice this really sucks for you i dont know what anyone could do in this situiation i woul dreally like to know what are the right steps in solving a problem like this

calib17a

Thanks for your replies guys! I know you can all relate to this situation because it could happen to anyone. I'm the type that if I was treated that way by any business I just have to spread the word so it doesn't happen to anyone else. As for me I just feel better to now have it in the hands of a competant establishment and that they do honor thier work. Even if Bergenholtz called me back I wouldn't feel comfortable having them work on my car anymore especially with such gross neglegance and disreguard to do things correctly.

Danger

damn that sucks . what shop did you take it to now ?

calib17a

K G Precision Engineering in Huntington beach.

MikeMAN

been in the same boat dude, it sucks..

jdm-motorsports in onalaska sucks ***..

I had them bolt up a b16a2 head to a b20 block and they overtorqued the head bolts...4 months later the head gasket was leaking, only to find out the bolts wouldn't torque past 30ft-lbs. Finally get the bolts out and find out 6 of the holes are stripped out.

Mike

calib17a

Maybe there should be a thread on shops that are HT approved. They would have to pass strict standards and be in good standing with HT customers.

choiboiracing

bad trip. but i would also recommend doing research on any other shop that you will be choosing. you never know.

Kwuaymaikrup

I know exactly what you are saying. The engine for my DA got no love from a "bigtime player" in this industry as well. I will leave them unamed for now. I think it is pretty fucked how the so called "little guys'' get screwed over buy these companies with no consequence to them. I hope everything works out for you, that is a really shitty position to be in.

-Ryan

calib17a

Yeah I'm just giving everyone a heads up if they were thinking of having anything done by his shop. I just ran into this mf at the NHRA Import races at the California
Speedway, they weren't able to make thier run because thier car had some problems, I wonder why ? Any ways he barely said one word to me. It's all good, karma is upon him, if not I'm making a vodoo doll if him and his cars .

boostedsol

wow, sorry to hear about your motor being jacked. I want to tell you that i have an identical setup. It takes alot of custom work to pull off the setup you have, and let me tell you, i've had similiar problems to the ones you were.

1st, You mentioned your block had a deck plate, this is what causes alot of differences on a build. The electric water pump is a totaly custom install. It does not in any way take the place of the stock water pump, the GE idler seals that gap, and the electric water pump needs a custom bracket and is installed between coolant hose.

Your overheating problem could have been the water pump issue. It takes some tweaking of the 6 or so allan bolts to get the right tightness. If tightened too much, the pump will not work and will cause you to overheat. Also vibration will cause the pump to break and water can leak into it and cause a short on the pump motor. (this happened to me). So make sure you use some padding/foam around the water pump support to absorb shock.

Another thing, make sure your fan switch is good and your fan is operating properly. Mine was broken and the car started to overheat.

Also, what vtec head are you using and what timing belt? I'd like to know..

sorry for the long post, just wanted to share my experiances with you.

edit* Basically, if Ron did NOT install the electric water pump the first time he dropped your new motor in, he is totally at fault. You can't run a deck plate without an electric water pump.


Modified by boostedsol at 1:07 AM 4/30/2004

calib17a

[QUOTE=boostedsol]
1st, You mentioned your block had a deck plate[QUOTE]

Actually I didn't mention I ran a deck plate, I was saying the block was decked or milled. I heard a deck plate wouldn't hold up under boost.

Ron was saying that I had to run the GE electric water pump and Fluidyne rad to have normal temps in my setup. The overheating back then was caused by not having the pcv valve on the breather box. It caused blow by which caused blue/white smoke to bellow out of the exhaust and also degrades your octane level which can cause detonation under boost conditions, and that could be why my rings are bad now. It also with the oil burning out the exhaust it consumed alot of oil very quickly. So quick that in a 5 day period I went to have an oil change and when I took off the oil filter no oil poured out, wtf! At first it made me think they never put oil in after they installed the motor. I took it to a reputable shop and they did a quick diagnostic on the car and concluded there was no pcv valve on the breather box.
After I installed the pcv valve the overheating went away and I ran it on the stock radiator for about 6 months without any overheating issues but damage to the rings may have already occured back then and boosting for 10 months with semi-damaged rings prompted such an early ring and head gasket failure. You see how such a small over sight on a tiny little component of the motor could cause so much trouble.
Thanks for your input anyways. I'm using the b17a head with an ls timing belt. I'm a little weary about using an electric water pump. What happens when the electric motor fails?

boostedsol

oh okay, i thought you had a deck plate on your block. But yeah, the electric water pump is a bit scary. You always have to make sure that thing is working properly.

calib17a

Results with a Snap-on leak down tester:

cyl 1- 24
cyl 2- 34
cyl 4- 24
cly 2- 22

Kurt from KG Precision Engineering will be pulling the head off today and inspecting the cylinder walls and pistons. If cylinder walls are scored he'll have to hone them and then replace bad rings and replace with new bored factory head gasket.

As for the head it's all stock besides the modifications to do ls/vtec. If it's warped he'll mill the head. Right now I'm low on funds to upgrade to a 5 angle valve job, over sized ss valves, port and polish, but at minumum I'll be upgrading Rev springs, retainers, and replace stock valve seals.

Replacing the springs and retainers should insure me on my next tune from having the valves float. I plan on having it tuned with new turbo setup, changes are in my sig.

SEFIxCivic

i dont run a pcv valve on my car... i don't think that will cause the things you've described.

calib17a

If your not having my problems, you probably do have you pcv valve in there. On my motor it sits on top of a breather box behind the block then a hose connectos to the intake manifold. It's not a one way valve from your valve cover to your intake piping.

SEFIxCivic

no, im sure i don't have that valve. i took it out so my intake charge isn't contaminated by oil. the crank case emissions are vented into the atmosphere.

i think your headgakset problems happened because you're coolant system wasn't properly bled. on a dry motor, it can take up to 30 mins to get it done right. either that... or like you said maybe your head wasn't perfectly true.

next time your motor starts acting strange, dont continue driving. just have your car towed. you'll save yourself money in the long run.

boostedsol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SEFIxCivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
next time your motor starts acting strange, dont continue driving. just have your car towed. you'll save yourself money in the long run.</TD></TR></TABLE>

very true, thats what i did in my situation

tommyten

I just want to make a comment here but IMO from what I have seen concerning
shops is that they do the best work on thier own cars or close friends. Other than that when it comes to the average customer they dont apply themselves as much.

this is just my opinion and I'm not trying to offend anyone.

calib17a

Yeah, I'm probably going to enroll in a class at my local community college for engine building. The only work I'm going to end up trusting is my own.

tommyten

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by calib17a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, I'm probably going to enroll in a class at my local community college for engine building. The only work I'm going to end up trusting is my own.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats why I try to do as much as possible on my own to.

CivicDXBoy

This is utter bull****. I almost shat myself reading this

m R g S r

I just rebuilt an engine for the first time. It's really not that hard and I feel everyone should invest some time and effort into theire own engines, so they are the only ones to blame if something goes wrong.

FredoSP

I hate these posts, samething with the RS thread in ALL MOTOR that got locked. I just don't understand this poor craftsmanship.

Everytime I read a post like this, its reassuring to me that I spent the extra $ and had Endyn build my motor and ship it to me.

hope everything works out.