<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cyphear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1 No you also run more boost on lower compression motors.

2 we are in the FI forum. SCR doesn't mean crap about how much a/f get into the cylinders. Look at the DCRs. I'll simplify it for you, if you have a 1.8 liter motor at 5 psi and one at 25 psi, which will have more a/f?

3 I'll work it out for you. 12:1 compression. 1000psi/6 = 166. 8:1 compression. 1000psi/4. The 6 and the 4 are from 6 times the volume and 4 times the volume of peak cylinder pressure. </TD></TR></TABLE>

1 Umm, so what? I'm not a fan of big boost numbers. I prefer an
efficient set-up. Not this try and push more air, but create more
heat so I have to run a bigger intercooler method. You'll get to a
point where no matter what you'll never get your intake temps
under 110*F. too hot my tastes.

2 Ok, sure there buddy. You just keep thinking that, "OK".... SCR's are
essential to figure out the DCR. Here: [(B/14.7)+1]"SCR"=DCR.
Can you read?

3 What the hell was that? I didn't see anything that remotely proves
your math there. Seems you are missing a bit to complete these
equations. So how did you get those multiples? 6 & 4 where from,
in other words? Please don't just quote these off the wall #'s
I said prove it. You didn't.....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nd_styles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1 Umm, so what? I'm not a fan of big boost numbers. I prefer an
efficient set-up. Not this try and push more air, but create more
heat so I have to run a bigger intercooler method. You'll get to a
point where no matter what you'll never get your intake temps
under 110*F. too hot my tastes.

2 Ok, sure there buddy. You just keep thinking that, "OK".... SCR's are
essential to figure out the DCR. Here: [(B/14.7)+1]"SCR"=DCR.
Can you read?

3 What the hell was that? I didn't see anything that remotely proves
your math there. Seems you are missing a bit to complete these
equations. So how did you get those multiples? 6 & 4 where from,
in other words? Please don't just quote these off the wall #'s
I said prove it. You didn't..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

1. I was just correcting you saying that there would be higher pressure in a high CR motor. I wasn't even talking about efficency. And anyway, guess what happens to the temperature of a gas when you compress it 12:1.

2. Your right, i mean't cylinder presure, not DCR. Now how does a 1.8 liter @ 5psi have the same ammount of air and fuel as a 1.8 liter @ 25psi?

3. Alrite, i'll try for a third time to explain this to you. If you have a 12:1 compresion motor, and you are halfway throug the stroke, you are going to have 6x the ammount of volume in each cylinder. Its just 12/2 man. I don't know how else i could explain this. This is just a little theory of mine though, its probably flawed somehow.

But anyway, no point in fighting about this. We have different opinons that are very hard to test since you can't really tear apart a motor and do back to back dyno runs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nd_styles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1 Umm, so what? I'm not a fan of big boost numbers. I prefer an
efficient set-up. Not this try and push more air, but create more
heat so I have to run a bigger intercooler method. You'll get to a
point where no matter what you'll never get your intake temps
under 110*F. too hot my tastes.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

1. I preffer to make heat (turbocharge) and then cool it (intercooler). You preffer to make heat (compression) and um........ not cool it. Whatever floats your boat.

So nobody has any proof of a 400whp non N20 10 psi turbo 4 cylinder honda? I'm not calling anyone a liar, just would like to see something. Not that it matters because who can proove the car was on pump gas and at 10 psi boost anyways.

EDIT:

One more thing. If you want to keep charge temps down then why even turbochage a car anyways? I mean, just run n/a. I'll tell you what, you can run any compression you want, any compression at all. Then I can boost all I want (at 7.8:1 compression) and we'll race, fair? You'll have the advantage since your charge temps will be SO much cooler than mine. Hell, you can even run a cold air intake for all I care.





Modified by danl at 6:42 PM 2/16/2004

 

you make a good point in seperating two different engine manufacturers. iv'e been reading this subject of compression ratio and turbo applications. most of the comments are all correct but, not one person has discussed the barometric effciency of the motor, and how well is your intake system desighned?

i beleieve that hondas make more power with a higher compression ratio than porsche, because the intake system desighn is poorer than porsche. the greater cylinder head flow charge the less restriction the turbo has the higher barometric efficience you have.

an example : between manifold pressure and static compression ratio no motor should exceed 20:1 compression ratio.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nd_styles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

1 Umm, so what? I'm not a fan of big boost numbers. I prefer an
efficient set-up. Not this try and push more air, but create more
heat so I have to run a bigger intercooler method. You'll get to a
point where no matter what you'll never get your intake temps
under 110*F. too hot my tastes.

[ </TD></TR></TABLE>

So your not a fan of high HP?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infinatenexus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So your not a fan of high HP?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually I prefer mid-range, and torque, but I don't drag-race. Anyways the less efficient it is the less power you make, and I knew you would just make some stupid off the wall comment. *****.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. I preffer to make heat (turbocharge) and then cool it (intercooler). You preffer to make heat (compression) and um........ not cool it. Whatever floats your boat.

So nobody has any proof of a 400whp non N20 10 psi turbo 4 cylinder honda? I'm not calling anyone a liar, just would like to see something. Not that it matters because who can proove the car was on pump gas and at 10 psi boost anyways.

EDIT:

One more thing. If you want to keep charge temps down then why even turbochage a car anyways? I mean, just run n/a. I'll tell you what, you can run any compression you want, any compression at all. Then I can boost all I want (at 7.8:1 compression) and we'll race, fair? You'll have the advantage since your charge temps will be SO much cooler than mine. Hell, you can even run a cold air intake for all I care.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You know I went through all of this last year. I can cool my charge well enough to have it much cooler than your's ever will be coming out of your intercooler. What's your point? Not to mention my compression doesn't heat it as much as you think. I know it does heat it, but I generally run my engine temps much cooler than the normal person. I'm a jackass... This I know.
From what I can see you don't pay attention to some of the numbers people have posted in the past. There's a few 400hp non-N2O honda's here, but I don't really know of any in person.
I don't know about you , but I turbo-charge cars because it's much more efficient than N/A. I'm more than willing to race you when I get time to put it all back together. My ex totalled it last summer, and I salvaged what I could, but there wasn't much left. Cold air intake? LOL! that's great now you think I'm some sort of ricer. Please don't call me names I might cry.
Hey if I were to beat you running an LS tranny would I get the last laugh?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nd_styles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Actually I prefer mid-range, and torque, but I don't drag-race. Anyways the less efficient it is the less power you make, and I knew you would just make some stupid off the wall comment. *****.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

You talk about stupid comments... then you call me a *****.. how poetic. Its all good though, you seem to lack any pratical knowlede... go back to reading super street.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nd_styles &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm more than willing to race you when I get time to put it all back together. My ex totalled it last summer, and I salvaged what I could, but there wasn't much left. Cold air intake? LOL! that's great now you think I'm some sort of ricer. Please don't call me names I might cry.
Hey if I were to beat you running an LS tranny would I get the last laugh? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok, you normally aspirated with a cool intake charge. I'll try to keep my charge temps above 200 degrees F, but will more than likley be approachins 250 degrees F. You can run any compression ratio you want. I get to run as much boost as I want.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your going to make 400whp on pump gas with 10.5:1 compression and 10 psi boost. OK, ha ha ha ha.</TD></TR></TABLE>
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=729936

Supposedly he made 432whp on pump with a 9:5:1cr.

 

Nice. The torque is climbing hard to redline like its creeping. But who am I to say, nice power. Even he said it may have spiked. Even though, good power on 9.5:1 compression.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So nobody has any proof of a 400whp non N20 10 psi turbo 4 cylinder honda? I'm not calling anyone a liar, just would like to see something. Not that it matters because who can proove the car was on pump gas and at 10 psi boost anyways.
Modified by danl at 6:42 PM 2/16/2004</TD></TR></TABLE>

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=635216

391WHP @ 10.5psi, and it has a cat, so its at least possible, hes probably up to 400 by now.

 

Thats great, and on a mustang dyno nonetheless. Boost did taper to 12 psi at the point where max hp was made. Still, great numbers on 91 octane.

EDIT: I'm seeing 340whp, not 390 whp. You don't "add 15%" HP on a mustang dyno because it actually loads the engine correctly. Depending on the torque curve, the actuall HP may or may not be higher. I've dynoed on both dynojets and mustang dynos. I'm not knocing though, because those are solid #'s and the boost chart is great data.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by danl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EDIT: I'm seeing 340whp, not 390 whp. You don't "add 15%" HP on a mustang dyno because it actually loads the engine correctly. Depending on the torque curve, the actuall HP may or may not be higher. I've dynoed on both dynojets and mustang dynos. I'm not knocing though, because those are solid #'s and the boost chart is great data.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, I don't know if i'd say it loads it more correctly though, its just two different methods of measuring power. Its generally accepted to add back 15%, thats why i said 390.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cyphear &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, I don't know if i'd say it loads it more correctly though, its just two different methods of measuring power. Its generally accepted to add back 15%, thats why i said 390.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, to be technical, the only way a dynojet loads the motor is with a big spinning metal drum via inertia. Mustang dynos load the car using eddy current braking, and can load the motor any way you choose. Hell, you can hold the motor at full throttle and set up the mustang dyno to NOT allow RPM's to climb, so you can tune each rpm point if you had the time.